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ROLLOUT OF SPECIAL M86 BUS SERVICE CAUSING CONFUSION; ‘I PREDICT IT WILL GET UGLY’

July 22, 2015 | 10:22 AM
in NEWS
60

m86 sbs
Workers put in new ticket kiosks last month at bus stations on the M86 line in preparation for Select Bus Service.

Select Bus Service, which attempts to speed service by having people buy tickets beforehand and adds new bus lanes, got a ringing endorsement from the architecture critic at the New York Times this week. But its implementation on the Upper West Side starting last week has left a lot to be desired, one tipster tells us.

MTA employees are waiting at the stops on the M86 to tell customers how to buy the tickets, but it hasn’t done much good, the person wrote:

Good Morning,

You should have a thread with comments about this new bus.

Although the program has been in effect for over a week, people are still paying their fare ON THE BUS without getting a ticket before they enter.

Does the uniformed MTA worker at the bus stop them from getting on the bus without buying a ticket from the machine on the sidewalk? No, he is standing there staring off into space.

Does the bus driver stop them from putting their Metrocard into the fare box right next to him? No. Not his job.

Why does the farebox on the bus still accept Metrocards?

Furthermore, the machines on the sidewalk already are not all working properly, I have had to wait several minutes for the ticket to appear.

In a week the MTA workers will start giving out a $100 summons to anyone without a ticket. You must go to Brooklyn if you want to contest it.

I predict it will get ugly.

Ugly how? People beating each over the head with fanny packs? MTA employees visibly weeping?

Or just the quiet accusatory glances people tend to give each other on the bus? (Those are terrifying by the way.)

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UWSD
UWSD
9 years ago

This “tip” is sour grapes, and really not an article worth publishing. I’ve taken the M86 three times during the morning rush the past two weeks and it’s been strikingly fast. No one during peak hours seems to be confused; I haven’t seen anyone mistakenly pay onboard yet (although it’s good to know that you can in a pinch). I personally haven’t had an issue with ticketing; perhaps there’s a faulty machine at this person’s stop.

FWIW, I’ve also noticed that the trips across town have been lightning-quick. I feel like the MTA is stacking the deck and added a few extra buses to boost SBS’s image. We’ll have to see how rush hour goes once school is back in session.

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ELJ
ELJ
9 years ago
Reply to  UWSD

I agree with you. The uniformed MTA worker at the Broadway stop when I was there was extremely helpful to everyone. He remained friendly and upbeat while explaining to riders how SBS works and how to buy tickets even though the many riders were snippy with him. The M86 has been a miserably slow route as long as I’ve lived here, anything the MTA tries to do to improve service is worth giving a chance.

Did the tipster report the problems that they experienced to the MTA or do they think sending a complaint to a neighborhood blog is the way to get things done?

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Cupcake
Cupcake
9 years ago

Are the riders of the M86 vastly more stupid than the riders of the M15, M60, M32 and any other SBS bus lines in the city? Well, maybe, but probably not. We will adapt to this much improved transit system with, I feel, a minimum of ugliness (other than that which we have been born with.)

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JD
JD
9 years ago

I think the MTA should put on commercials showing people how to use the service. I also think weekly & monthly Metrocards should have expiration dates printed on the card, so that people who board the bus should not have to get a ticket from the kiosk. If anyone asks just flash your Metrocard.

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ron shapley
ron shapley
9 years ago
Reply to  JD

You, obviously, have been living in a cave the last three years..

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barbara
barbara
9 years ago
Reply to  JD

That is a great idea — it would eliminate some of the crowd at the machines. Is there a way for the inspector to look at a Metrocard and see that it is a weekly or monthly card by sight?

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PG NYC
PG NYC
9 years ago
Reply to  barbara

No, not by sight, and also there’s no way to imprint an expiration date other than the expiration on it already, which is for the card itself, not the present value of it.

What they COULD do though, is arm inspectors with portable card readers they could use to see when a card was last swiped or whether it’s a valid unlimited card.

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TFJWM
TFJWM
9 years ago
Reply to  PG NYC

They have that already, they only use it if you say you lost your receipt when they are giving out tickets. Even if it unlimited and not swiped you will get a ticket thou.

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Cyrus
Cyrus
9 years ago

I agree with UWSD, this complaint is much ado about nothing. My experience with the MTA employee “manning” the box as well as the process itself was excellent. She came right over to assist me, and the ticket spit right out. She did allow it will get dicey when the kids return to school in a few weeks. That’s expected, but nothing that means it will get “ugly.” It’s progress people, get on board (pun intended)

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Marsha
Marsha
9 years ago

In my view, it’s working fine. It’s a transition period, and a lot of educating is going on. Driver accepting the old ways? This is a transition period. It would be ugly (and really slow things down) if people still unaware were kicked off the bus. Would the bus wait for them to get the new ticket or pull off on schedule? Either would be ugly. Employee looking into space? This sounds like a gratuitous gotcha to me. There’s never a moment when there aren’t lots of people there, and everyone needs a break for a moment. The MTA is using the same process they used when the M60 converted, and in short order, after some fuzz, it worked fine and still does. Take a deep breath. All would be fine. If you see someone at the stop who doesn’t understand the new process, consider explaining it, helpfully and kindly. That would be nice. You’ll feel better. (And by the way, West Side Rag, was this gripe really worth printing?)

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ursus arctos
ursus arctos
9 years ago

Another happy customer so far (though I wish they hadn’t killed the West End stop).

Each of the Select Bus routes have required a period of adaptation, particularly for infrequent riders, though that period has lessened as the service has become more widespread. I actually expected more sturm und drang (particularly from clueless tourists on both sides of the Park), but have been pleasantly surprised.

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this is a tip?
this is a tip?
9 years ago

I predict – someone needs to repeat 7th grade

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Paris Wyome
Paris Wyome
9 years ago

What a bloody awful and probably expensive idea (new equipment, new ticket, added personnel).

Who did the research before the system was implemented?

Until last week when I attempted to take a 86 St. Crosstown bus east from 86 St. and CPW using my standard MTA ticket, I had never heard of this awful idea. (Who is paying the NY Times guy to like it?)

Because of the new system I could not use my regular ticket and ride on that bus! Had to endure the new system nightmare and wait for another bus. Was more than 10 minutes late for a doctor’s appointment. I was furious. From now on, I’ll walk across the park to the E. 80s on nice days.

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Busmonster
Busmonster
9 years ago
Reply to  Paris Wyome

The new “system” involves pressing a button labeled “start,” inserting your metrocard, and taking a receipt which then emerges.

I am not sure how this could present recurring issues even if one was somewhat slower in figuring it out the first time.

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Mark
Mark
9 years ago
Reply to  Paris Wyome

Seriously? This is something that has been implemented in many cities around the world. Do you really need additional studies to show that relieving the burden of payment from the bus to the street and allowing people to enter at multiple doors will speed the process?

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BruBru
BruBru
9 years ago
Reply to  Paris Wyome

I am surprised you haven’t heard of it until recently. Many people have been taking it all over the city on other lines.

A quick google search says there are currently 9 lines with SBS (select bus service) in the city. In Manhattan, it includes the M15 which started in 2010 for the east side and M34 — along 34th street — which started 4 years ago in 2011.

It takes some getting used to but it is MUCH faster. Just think….years ago you didn’t understand the MetroCard and probably wanted the token to remain.

You asked who did the research? Well, with 8 lines before this over 5 years, that is enough research for me.

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UWS Guy
UWS Guy
9 years ago
Reply to  Paris Wyome

Please do walk. Those of us who enjoy actually getting places on the bus (rather than watching 100 people try to dip their MetroCards at each stop) are thrilled with the change and will not miss you onboard. Hopefully only a matter of time before they roll SBS out on the other cross-town routes. It’s such a cheap, efficient way to speed up the system. Kudos to the MTA for making it happen – now let’s have more of it!

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L
L
9 years ago

I didn’t have a ticket. Bus driver waved me over
to get one and THEN LEFT before I got the ticket.

Then as I was waiting for NEXT bus (I thought the point
of this program was to SAVE time!!), a lady almost
knocked me over to get to the ticket machine.

Program sucks.

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Mark
Mark
9 years ago
Reply to  L

So your learning curve consists of one ride and you encountered a rude person. For this the program sucks? Are you sure you are cut out to live in NYC?

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Jack Davis
Jack Davis
9 years ago

Agree–sour grapes. The system has worked just fine for me, nor have I seen other travelers having trouble with the ticket machines.

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Eddie
Eddie
9 years ago

I am generally in favor of this but I really like the idea of there being a way to flash your monthly to the driver rather than having to use the machine. I am dreading the cold winter day where a bus pulls away while I am waiting to use the machine with my monthly.

Has anyone seen an MTA employee on one of the buses yet checking for tickets?

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TFJWM
TFJWM
9 years ago
Reply to  Eddie

They usually give you about a month “grace period” before they start checking

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Tom D
Tom D
9 years ago

I ride SBS buses all over town. If you people are having trouble with this, you must be a lot dumber than the average rider elsewhere in the city. Or maybe you’re just lazy and don’t want to take 30 seconds to read a little bit of new information. These buses are absolute timesavers

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B.W.
B.W.
9 years ago

I take this bus every morning and most evenings, and it is not confusing at all, unless you never take a bus or use public transportation. I’ve even seen the bus drivers waiting while confused passengers get their tickets and then board. The M60 has been running SBS for a while, now, and it’s not a difficult thing to do.

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Ken
Ken
9 years ago

I enjoyed my first ride on the express M86 yesterday evening and felt that the ride was much quicker than customary on the old M86.

Flashing an unlimited card won’t prove that you didn’t pay for a ride for someone else before you boarded.

I think that some of the stops may require additional ticket machines in the future.

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Cato
Cato
9 years ago

I’ve taken the M60 to and from LaGuardia — a long trip — and never saw anyone, myself included, asked to show a receipt/ticket.

I know what’s *supposed* to happen, and I’ve heard about what happens on other lines.

But has anyone riding the new 86th Street SBS actually been asked to show a receipt/ticket?

Or is the trip now really free?

If the MTA does not enforce the need to have a receipt/ticket, more and more riders will simply skip that step and the bus will be totally free.

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Lurker
Lurker
9 years ago
Reply to  Cato

I took the M60 SBS from LaGuardia in late May and at one of the stops on 125th the MTA police(?) did get on and check for receipts. They also escorted riders who did not have a receipt off the bus.

Until then, I thought checking for receipts was an urban myth!

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Mark
Mark
9 years ago
Reply to  Cato

Apparently many of those who don’t get it haven’t traveled internationally. There are plenty of cities across the world operating on the “honor system” and you almost never see anyone checking tickets.
So much for New Yorkers being sophisticated world travelers!

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Cato
Cato
9 years ago
Reply to  Mark

I’ve traveled plenty internationally, and New Yorkers don’t behave anything like the people on transit systems in other major cities.

No kind of “honor system” will ever work in New York. Stand at any subway entrance for ten minutes and you’ll see someone jump the turnstile, walk through an “emergency” door, or otherwise show the system that he or she just isn’t bound by any sense of order or “honor”.

And now we seem to be openly inviting that conduct on our buses.

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Cyrus
Cyrus
9 years ago
Reply to  Cato

Yes, Cato, the new SBS system is just a gateway to full blown City-wise anarchy.

Jeesh.

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Mark
Mark
9 years ago
Reply to  Cato

Oh please. What percentage of daily riders cheat the system? The that percentage (which I’m sure is miniscute) a reason not to join other civilized cities in the 21st century? Are there really no cheats in major European cities? It’s going to be ok. You can worry about others or you can enjoy a faster ride. I choose the latter.

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ursus arctos
ursus arctos
9 years ago
Reply to  Cato

I’ve seen people ticketed for ticketless riding on the M60 to and from Laguardia on multiple occasions.

I don’t think that there are many repeat offenders.

For those looking for the “expiration date” solution, that just isn’t doable with current Metrocards, but will essentially be implemented once the system goes “contactless” (currently scheduled by 2019).

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wcsnyc
wcsnyc
9 years ago

I’ve traveled all over Europe using various versions of this system and think it’s a great idea for NYC. We’ll all get used to it eventually (even those who grumble for a living) … just like Metrocards.

However, I do have one question. Why are the machines facing outward toward the street? (1) Seems like you’re inviting a car/taxi/bike collision, especially when people crowd around at busy times … and (2) the signage and instructions would be facing inward, reminding newbies and tourists to purchase the tickets in advance.

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Cyrus
Cyrus
9 years ago
Reply to  wcsnyc

I’m wondering the same thing. Although it’s inconsistent from block to block. Some fare boxes are facing the street, while others are facing the sidewalk (inward). Very odd.

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oldbroad
oldbroad
9 years ago

Have you taken the Broadway bus at 86 St when the crowd who got off the cross town limited got on? It’s a mob scene, with lots of anger because of the long wait. The MTA seems to have removed buses from Broadway.

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Jane S. Gabin
Jane S. Gabin
9 years ago

The kiosks, one MTA employee told me, cost $10,000 each. All this is supposed to make the buses ran more smoothly and faster. I take the 34A SBS 5x a week, so I know how this goes. One of the kiosks will be out of order, so the line for the other kiosk will get very long. The bus will arrive. Sometimes it will wait for all the people at the kiosk to get their tickets; sometimes it won’t. It doesn’t make the buses arrive any faster. The manufacturers of the kiosks, though, will have done well.

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Frank
Frank
9 years ago
Reply to  Jane S. Gabin

As will the MTA employees who awarded the contracts, if you catch my drift.

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Lynn
Lynn
9 years ago

I used the Select Bus Service and bought a ticket at 86th and Madison on the first day of operation. The young man was very helpful and said he was a volunteer. Everything worked perfectly. The MTA employee stationed there WAS staring off into space.

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ron shapley
ron shapley
9 years ago

OMG NYC bus people are generally the dumbest people on the planet !!

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Mark
Mark
9 years ago
Reply to  ron shapley

You have to wonder how some of them manage to figure out that their underwear goes on before their pants!

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Frank
Frank
9 years ago

How stupid does anyone have to be to not figure this out. Get with it folks; it’s not rocket science or brain surgery.

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Elaine Ellis
Elaine Ellis
9 years ago

While the bus lanes may make the ride faster, the system is ill conceived. To ride any bus you need a Metrocard. Now let us assume you are at 86th and Broadway and want to go to 42nd and 2nd. It used to be you could choose to take the crosstown and the downtown or the downtown and the crosstown, often deciding on whether the crosstown or the 104 arrived first. Not any more. You use your metrocard to get a receipt and you are committed to the crosstown even if the 104 arrives and there is no crosstown in sight.

Second assumption. You are running from West End Avenue to catch the bus – the one with three entrances so you were able to get on. Not now, first you have to get your receipt – and too bad, you’ve missed the bus.

And literally SBS misses the bus. It would have been possible to put in more machines inside of the bus – that is what they do in other cities – one at each door. That would speed things up and you wouldn’t have to have all those machines on the sidewalks.

Oh yes, who is making money on them and how much did they contribute to whose campaigns.

No awful system.

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Jay
Jay
9 years ago
Reply to  Elaine Ellis

Elaine, you had this same comment on the last SBS thread and it still doesn’t make any sense. You take the 1 train to grand central and switch to the Shuttle.

I don’t think you understand that paying before you enter the bus speeds everything up. Yes, you may miss a bus here and there, but the bus travels so much quicker you’ll make up that time you may have to wait for the next bus.

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Jezbel
Jezbel
9 years ago
Reply to  Elaine Ellis

I want to make sure I have this right — I recently moved back to the UWS after living out-of-state for the past 10 years. So there are a few things I’ve missed. So this Special Bus Service is essentially an express crosstown bus, right? But I can’t use my regular metrocard…. I have to put the card into the new machine and get a receipt? A paper receipt? And according to your scenario, if I’m on B’way around 86th St and want to go downtown & crosstown, I have to pick which bus to wait for? Because if I get a receipt first, but the B’way bus arrives first, I can’t use my metrocard? Why? I know I can’t go in and out and back into a turnstile in the subway…. because there’s a (15 or 20 minute) rule? But why can’t I use my card on a different bus? Same reason? Or just plain nasty MTA?

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lucette
lucette
9 years ago
Reply to  Elaine Ellis

No comment on 86th street but it is impossible to get there this evening from 65th and bway because at 9PM no buses were running north and there was no notification. At least 20 people stood and waited for 50 minutes when someone came by and said walk to 72nd street for a bus.

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Jake
Jake
9 years ago

So what’s next? My big fear now is that this lousy idea will work its way down to the 79th and 72nd St. crosstown busses. Thanks, but no thanks. I think I’ll walk; the exercise will do me good!

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Cyrus
Cyrus
9 years ago
Reply to  Jake

Seriously. This is your big fear in life? Yes, by all means, go ahead and walk to your destination. That surely will be much quicker than riding an express bus.

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dannyboy
dannyboy
9 years ago

Frank, I do get your drift. And Jane, thanks for informing us about the kiosk costing $10,000.

Plus the $100 fine for not getting it right or understanding these rules.

I’m seeing a pattern here.

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Mark
Mark
9 years ago
Reply to  dannyboy

I see it too.
Improvements can cost money and not being intelligent enough to know how to ride a city bus can have its downside.

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dannyboy
dannyboy
9 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Mark, you and I have reached completely different conclusions when faced with the same set of facts.

Interesting!

You concluded that:”Improvements can cost money and not being intelligent enough to know how to ride a city bus can have its downside.”

Now, Mark, you must know that not all people who don’t get the new express ticket system right are not unintelligent. Why say such a thing? Some people are new to this and won’t get the ticket system right away. Why do you want them punished? Why call them names?

Seems kinda’ harsh treatment of your fellow NYers.

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Mark
Mark
9 years ago
Reply to  dannyboy

Um, no – but your sense of drama is impressive.
It takes one experience to figure it out. Literally the learning curve consists of one experience. So if one is unable to figure it out after that one experience, there is a problem with basic intelligence.
This applies to New Yorkers and non-New Yorkers.
If that’s too painful of a statement, then I guess there are problems with both intelligence and emotional health at play.

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dannyboy
dannyboy
9 years ago
Reply to  Mark

This is the point. It does take experience to learn this. Why have a fine as the teacher?

Kinda’ Hobbesian.

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Lynn
Lynn
9 years ago

You mean H and R cards are not eligible to a quick ride? It also sucks thy they did away with the WEA discharge of passengers- whose bright idea was that?

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MDC
MDC
9 years ago

This system is also in place at the 34th street cross town bus line. It speeds up commute time because people board faster. Just make sure to hang on to your printed ticket because the MTA agents/cops make random & unannounced checks on the buses and will ask all passengers to show their tickets. I have seen them remove passengers from the bus and write them a summons because they did not have the printed ticket.

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Jennifer Sanders
Jennifer Sanders
9 years ago

So far, fumb, “living in a cave”, stupid (x3), imbecile, unsophisticated, and sour grapes.

I don’t know whether it’s hilarious or depressing how angry some of these comments are at a random person not liking the new bus system.

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dannyboy
dannyboy
9 years ago
Reply to  Jennifer Sanders

my favs are:

“Are you sure you are cut out to live in NYC?”

“So much for New Yorkers being sophisticated world travelers!”

“You have to wonder how some of them manage to figure out that their underwear goes on before their pants!”

“not being intelligent enough to know how to ride a city bus can have its downside.”

Need a dsm code for West Side Rag Rage.

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Mark
Mark
9 years ago
Reply to  dannyboy

I see I have gained a stalker! 🙂
If you think these comments are examples of rage, then you must be a new resident of NYC.
Perhaps Kansas would be a more comfortable fit.

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dannyboy
dannyboy
9 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Wrong on all accounts.

4 Generations of NYers.

Commenting that anyone who disagrees with you should not be living in NYC is, well, not very NYCish.

Telling L that: “Are you sure you are cut out to live in NYC?” was the early tip-off.

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Steve
Steve
9 years ago
Reply to  dannyboy

The Select Bus service is GREAT!!!

Yes…confused the first time.

Gee…Guess what I did??

I asked someone who was waiting there if she can assist me.
She smile and came over. I paid attention and I said “Thank you so much!”

Mark is right!!!!
You’ll do it once…learn it for next time…and compare how much faster and efficient this Select Service is from regular at bus service.
Oye Vey!:)

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dannyboy
dannyboy
9 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Incorrect again. 4 generations of NYers.

Guess you want it your way or the highway (to Kansas).

I’m not stalking but disagreeing. You know that NYers are great at conversation.

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