By Carol Tannenhauser
Still confused about Congestion Pricing: what it is, when it’s coming, and how it will work?
The UWS Coalition of Block Associations is holding a virtual informational forum on Congestion Pricing tonight, Wednesday, December 15th. This is a topic of growing interest to the neighborhood, especially now that public hearings have started and the MTA prepares to kick off a 16-month environmental assessment in 2022.
Among the issues that Upper West Siders have brought up in prior meetings about congestion pricing is whether more people will park in the neighborhood so they won’t get charged for driving into the congestion zone. Some have advocated for residential parking permits.
Congestion Pricing forum tonight at 6:30PM.
Live streamed at https://t.co/kQAjZifwfR https://t.co/cEj7OifhXv— W 64th thru 67th Streets Block Association (@6467_block) December 15, 2021
The featured speaker at the forum is Charles Komanoff, an energy-policy analyst, transport economist, and environmental activist in New York City. “He was a prime mover in the successful campaign to pass a congestion pricing plan for New York City, both as creator of the spreadsheet model used by state government and transit advocates to evaluate different tolls, and as an advocate for the idea of balancing transit investment with traffic-pricing,” the UWS Coalition says.
Event Details
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2021
Time: 6:30 – 7:30 PM
YouTube Link (advance registration not required): https://youtu.be/XnAGDd4Pnew
And check out the UWS Block Association’s website for information and links to all of the programming it has presented in its inaugural year.
Any plan for parking permits MUST include permits for those who work in the neighborhood and who own businesses in the neighborhood.
Enough with the talk about the people who work or own businesses in the neighborhood. Don’t understand why they should be a protected class with greater benefits than anyone else who has their own valid reason for driving here. Three’s a mindless obsession here with lamenting the plight of people who drive to this neighborhood, make their money here, and take it to their neighborhoods to spend it. Incrementally, they’re not putting it back into this neighborhood as locals are doing to a far greater degree.
It’s also a well known fact that building service workers routinely hog parking spots by turning them over to their co-workers leaving others with no chance of parking in those spots.
The NYC Subway is unique among most transportation systems worldwide by not charging distance-based fares. If people who live further away don’t take advantage of this distance-based benefit, then it’s on them to bear their increased commuting costs. I know plenty of well-heeled people who travel long distances daily by bus/train to get to work so they can do it, too. We shouldn’t be facilitating the use of one-person cars.
Many workers and business owners who drive here don’t live near the subway and live in transit deserts. Assuming that they can all take the subway without having to transfer to some other transit system is a privilege that you have living in Manhattan. How do you know that they don’t spend money here? What about the UWS residents who have second homes and spend money there on weekends?
Nothing real confusing about congestion pricing:
It’s a tax on not real well paid workers who have to drive into Manhattan because they work off hours, example they work the late shift at a big midtown hotel, say the 6th Avenue Hilton, or they’re building services workers in big office buildings downtown.
So those extra thousands of dollars in Manhattan permission to drive fees will matter to them, while the well of corporate lawyer who only drives out of Manhattan on weekends and then back on Sunday night will barely notice.
Look for the price of a slice of pizza to go up in price at independent shops south of 60th street. And look for monthly off street parking to go up in price in the 60s and 70s.
I don’t want to read any claims saying: “but they can take the train/bus”. Who wants to wait for a late train/bus at 12:30 AM at Penn or the PABT, when she/he could already be through the tunnel and driving home to the middle of New Jersey to a residence nowhere near a commuter line instead?
The sunsetted commuter tax should be restored.
NO question that off hours congestion pricing should be minimal.
That’s your opinion, but I don’t see any real evidence to support it. If the outcome you predict even happens, it will affect a very small percentage workers, people who will simply adapt to their new reality with the most efficient alternative. In my opinion, too many cars driven by one person enter the city everyday. It is evidenced by the shortage of parking that already exists on the UWS and the frequent gridlock on Riverside, West End, Broadway and Amsterdam Ave when the West Side Highway is backed up. I would like to see the implementation of a fair CPS.
If you take away roads or price them beyond a normal person’s means, WHAT ARE WE GETTING IN RETURN?? Mass transit is still horrible, inconvenient, unsafe, too expensive, miserable. Congestion pricing does NOT answer these problems. Numerous ferry routes from New Jersey to the Upper West Side need to be created (with reasonably priced parking on the Jersey side). Make it AFFORDABLE!! No one will WANT to drive into the city if safe, convenient, pleasant, & affordable alternatives are offered!!! Add train lines from NJ to the Upper West Side. Making driving in the city more expensive without offering relief is putting the cart before the horse, and just making people’s everyday lives worse!! Cutting West End down to single lanes from 2 has only created road rage. Instead of making driving & walking safer, it has become more dangerous. Congestion pricing will just create more misery & decrease safety in ways we can’t foresee. Also, we need a train option to Laguardia!! This would cut a tremendous amount of traffic in Manhattan!
“Mass transit is still horrible (DISAGREE), inconvenient (DISAGREE), unsafe (NEVER HAD A PROBLEM), too expensive (DISAGREE), miserable (DISAGREE).”
“If you take away roads or price them beyond a normal person’s means, WHAT ARE WE GETTING IN RETURN??”
Cleaner air. Less noise. Safer streets. Faster responses from emergency vehicles.
Not everyone who drives absolutely needs a car. The majority of residents don’t have cars. You can still drive if you have to, you just need to pay for the costs that your driving imposes on the rest of us. If you want to pollute our neighborhood – pay up!
Josh
Actually major contributors to congestion are:
overdevelopment, commercial-service (plumbing etc), construction, explosion of ecommmerce delivery. Also narrowing of streets due to bike lanes.
BTW many gig-delivery workers like Instacart are using own cars (not commercial plates)
Every car that drives through our neighborhood pollutes the air that we breathe. Every car needs to pay for the pollution that they inflict on the rest of us.
Every car that drives through the neighborhood is transit that the MTA is unable or unwilling to provide because resources are always limited. Every car that drives through the neighborhood might be accommodating a disability (not all disabilities are visible) that the MTA is unable or unwilling to accommodate.
Complete Scam!
One more way for Grifter Politicians to pick our pockets.
MTA, City, State have just gotten Pandemic windfalls. If the Pols don’t squander (as usual) there is plenty for the needed upgrades.
Now that hundreds of on-street parking spots have been eliminated with bike lanes, this will force additional traffic uptown to our neighborhood . . . emission-polluting cars patrolling block after block seeking ever-rare spots.
(Not everybody owns a car so this is meant to be typically divisive between those that do, or don’t – but if the Grifters get away with this . . . the Pols will next pick YOUR pocket on something else, car or not.
UWS, stay united – NO to Pickpocket Grifter Pol Scam!
Had no idea.
Have not seen any messaging about this forum.
I watched this session and the “expert” . . . he is a clueless, unimaginative bureaucrat who starts with his conclusion, then works back to creating his story . . . not all of which is sound.
Typically, also of bureaucrats, he seems to think that when government extracts money from the productive sector, there is no collateral effect. If there’s a couple of billion dollars just floating around that the Grifter sector can grab they suggest there is no side effect (higher costs to the rest of us, foregone opportunities as customers of local businesses, etc.) or that is the best use of those $.
Government is proven to be the least-efficient allocator of capital. This a Political Money Grab Scam for Absolute Certainty.
IF the MTA did a better job at what they do 1) this wouldn’t be ‘necessary’ and 2) we could have faith that the money collected would be put to best use.
Simple fact is MTA is an inefficient, unsafe, corrupt cesspool which is so ineffective at running their operation today . . . citizens are avoiding train, subway en masse rather than risk being mugged or murdered. Ugly, but truthful statement. MTA, fix what you’ve got before you subject us to another of your boondoggles!
Komanoff is one of the major players in the anti-car movement, a long time, past head of Transportation Alternatives. He’s not a bureaucrat, he starts with his conclusion because he’s an ideologue.
To open the meeting, the main speaker basically said people who agree with him are winners. The rest? Losers.
Great way to start a dialogue.
And no, there’s no way for the community to participate in MTA discussions.
Another step forward for democracy.
Park on the outskirts of city and use public transportation like the rest of us. Not that complicated! (And: Driving is terrible for the environment so think about alternative living ideas.)
The outskirts of the city so to speak don’t want people parking there either. Look at Riverdale. They don’t want people driving from Westchester to take the 1 train without having any understanding that there’s no direct access to the west side by transit from Westchester or Connecticut. God help you if you need the UWS and live in Westchester or Connecticut.
And many of the teachers, police officers and fire fighters travel from Rockland County. What are they supposed to do? There is no efficient mass transit from Rockland County.
But Manhattan residents think that anywhere outside Manhattan is not their concern. Manhattan needs people from outside Manhattan including outer boroughs and suburbs, we don’t need Manhattan.
Something has to be done about the congestion on our roads and this is a good start but only if it is done in conjunction with 24 hour parking meters for all parking spaces in Manhattan.
We already have congestion pricing partly in place – it is the tolls on bridges and tunnels so it costs a small fortune to get to Manhattan. If they want to add tolls to the East River crossings (they can make it cheaper for NYC registered cars), I’m all for that.
But this plan is just a bad idea and will cause more problems than it solves. The main ones paying this will be delivery trucks, so the increased cost will just be passed through with higher prices.
All of NYC should have parking permits for your location (by zip code etc). I listened to the event he is way off the mark by stating that for that upper west side parking permit would cost a lot of money for the person. Right now no one is paying and we have many out of state plates parking that are either driving in or committing insurance fraud. Non residents can park for say 4 hours max and pay.
Your car must be registered at the address in that location.
For those that have multiple addresses your car is to be registered at your primary address otherwise it is soft insurance fraud unless you are truly leaving your car at a secondary address and only using it there not because it is cheaper to register and insure your car there and then park and live in NYC.
By the way if you see out of state plates continually parking overnight you can report them and let the insurance company decide usually what they do is drop them the first time they report a claim and they may not pay the claim depending on the size of it.
Some states you can find the carrier directly with the plate number.
Very well said. New York garages should also be required to account for their long-term “monthly” parkers with New Jersey or other foreign plates.
…and force those who work here and own businesses to use garages. Doormen and other building workers who live in transit deserts can’t afford garage rates, particularly if they work hours where there is no early bird special. But UWS residents are so privileged that they can’t understand that there are SO MANY people who don’t live in Manhattan. I routinely come across people who automatically ASSUME I live in Manhattan even though I don’t.
Worth considering:
Since 2009 the MTA has cut/split West Side bus routes (M5, M10, M104) and frequency (all).
A taxi congestion surcharge was added in 2019 (plus other fees).
City taxpayers pay for Fair Fares (subway subsidy for low-income).
The subway is 🙁
And now West Siders with a car get to pay more.
Summary: less bus subway service, pay more for taxi or car and pay taxes for others..
There were 900,000 new cars registered to NYC in 2020 and I suspect we will top or equal that for 2021.
I know this congestion pricing is a done deal, but we do need permits for this neighbhorhood regardless of what happens.
The city should also consider increasing cost of registrations based on the length of the vehicle. There’s more big cars / pickups / SUVs taking up a lot of side street parking so their owners can only drive them on the weekend.
I almost fell of my chair laughing when I saw Charles “graph” … I can only imagine what his spreadsheet is like, LoL.
I have created and review many models in my life so when someone presents a graph like he did, it first of all reeks of “false accuracy”, then the sheer complexity of the model renders it useless. The fact that the DoT, MTA, NYC/NYS governments are using it to make the kinds of decisions they are is downright scary.
Electric vehicles should be exempt from the congestion pricing since they do not contribute to pollution or climate change.
It’s called “congestion” pricing for a reason, not “climate” pricing.
From London congestion policy review
“Key measures show it has been a success: in 2006, Transport for London (TfL) reported that the charge reduced traffic by 15% and congestion – that is, the extra time a trip would take because of traffic – by 30%. This effect has continued to today. Traffic volumes in the charging zone are now nearly a quarter lower than a decade ago, allowing central London road space to be given over to cyclists and pedestrians.” Residents get a 90% discount and people with disabilities free. This seems to be a workable model
Congestion pricing will reduce traffic the question is collateral damage. Upper East and West sides will lose parking both (on and off street). The “model” states it results in a 1 percent increase in cars going above the congestion price zone in manhattan to park. Simultaneously resident parking sticker should be implemented to.stop out of town commuters parking in residential areas above the congestion zone. Why should the rest of Manhattan even get a 1 percent increase in cars parking when seemly a residential parking permit would solve the problem. I don’t believe it is only 1 percent we will see though.
Residential permit parking I would think would be at least an attempt to solve the problem. Only cars registered and insured in that zip code get the permit others could be limited to a max of 4 hours. Your drivers license also should have the same address.
Which “model” says this? None I’ve seen…
If people are coming to the UWS to find parking then they are wasting their time. There is none to be had in most areas.
The people driving into the zone aren’t doing it to save a buck, they are doing it for their perceived convenience.
watch the youtube video it is stated it is a 1 percent increase projected in his “model”. Next time you look for street parking you will see out state plates all over the place so having a residential permit would also remove those cars or cause them to be registered in The zip code where they are parking if they truly live there. that said i always find street parking right now maybe with additional cars maybe not so easy.
Any permit system must include employees and any time limit on residential parking spaces must be 12 or 18 hours to account for those who use residential spaces when working. To assume that workers can use the subway is privileged since most workers who drive their cars would have to make one or more transfers in order to get to their jobs on the UWS. I know many people in these situations.