A rendering of the new school via Dattner Architects.
The mayor announced on Wednesday that a new state-of-the-art K-8 public school will open in 2017 at 61st Street and West End Avenue. Officials had been concerned that the opening would be delayed until 2018, so this should be welcome news to parents.
The new school, which is part of the residential-commercial Riverside Center development, is a piece in a complicated puzzle the Department of Education is trying to solve: how to rezone Upper West Side schools to make the popular schools less overcrowded, while at the same time desegregating the district. Delays in building the new school could have complicated the rezoning plans, but the 2017 opening should make it easier.
PS 191, a K-8 school currently located at 61st Street and Amsterdam, is expected to move into the new school as part of a refresh for that school. PS 191 students have received below-average test scores on state exams and the school was labelled as “persistently dangerous” last year, a label that has since been overturned.
The new school will be feature art and music rooms, two rooftop recreational spaces, a library and a science lab. It will also have a “medical suite,” according to a release from the city, and a gymnatorium (which is frankly a fantastic word). It’s the first new school built in the neighborhood in decades and local officials had to fight to get it — despite new construction in the neighborhood, the Bloomberg administration had been slow to build new schools.
“Our students, teachers and parents are extremely excited by the prospect of calling this wonderful new building our home,” said P.S. 191 Principal Lauren Keville in the city’s statement. “This facility would empower our students with vast and incredible resources, it would help grow our student body and school community, and it would encourage learning on a new level.”
The mayor said the new school is being built “a full year ahead of schedule,” which is at best partially accurate given that officials had initially hoped the school would be built by 2015. (The timeline was influenced by the construction timeline of the development as it’s on private property.)
See the latest news about the Upper West Side school rezoning plan here.
Good luck students, teachers, parents and administrators!
Make us proud!
Any info on plans for public transportation expansions to address the growth of that part of town? The occasional M57 isn’t going to cut it!
On the first day of school last September, my daughter, who is attending West End Secondary (a public middle school on West 61st – a block with 3 other schools) was advised by other students that the M57 never shows up. She has walked home in sweltering heat, rain storms, and wearing layers of clothing in winter. The MTA says that congestion of 57th Street causes delays in services. I have walked up West End with her for the 13 blocks to our apartment, and there’s usually no buses in view during the walk. As others have said, thanks Obama/La Guardia (ha).
Why didn’t your daughter take the private buses that were organized by the school? Most of the kids I know traveled back and forth on them.
Yeah, they added the extra citibike a for ya. Start spinning!
It only took three comments in an unrelated article, for CitiBike vitriol to start spewing out. I wonder if CitiBike is the new Godwin’s law?
Pretty harsh comparison there Zulu. Hitler? Nazism!
We’re talkin’ bikes.
k
I suppose I’ll take your word for it.
I got your “point”, but using suck an extreme analgy is even worse than criticising bikes (if you can imagine).
I’m tryin’ to help you here Zulu. You sucessfuly brought me around to bike-positive, and I’m repaying the debt
You’re missing the point.
What the area between 60th and 80th street needs is ANOTHER school, not a moving an already existing school to a new location (basically across the street).
Aside from providing nicer facilities, which I am not sure were needed or is money well spent, this will do little if anything at all to change the academic results of PS 191 or the other complaints regarding the school.
The answer would seem to be to open an entirely new (additive) school in similar fashion to what was done with PS 452, which took some of the pressure from PS 199 and PS 87. With a new school, the added pressure that has since built up around the schools, in particular PS 199, would be largely addressed, more so given all the new apartment buildings going up along West End Avenue and Amsterdam in that area.
If a school is doing terribly as PS 191 is rumored to be doing, then moving it to fancier digs one block away is not going to solve much.
“this will do little if anything at all to change the academic results of PS 191 or the other complaints regarding the school.” David
Sounds like you don’t want ‘that population’ to get anything good.
“With a new school, the added pressure that has since built up around the schools, in particular PS 199, would be largely addressed”
Sound like everything good should be going to P.S. 199, since they must be more deserving (or is it ‘more important’, or ‘more influential’?)
You must work for the DOE!
I want the population to be able to provide their children with a good education – how about you?
I don’t want this BS back and forth, beating around the bush crap year in and year out.
It’s very simple – the area between the 60s and 80s on the UWS does not have enough schools. To make matters worse, some of those schools are seriously lacking in providing an above average education.
The answer is also simple – open more schools and provide a better education.
Moving schools round and round from one zone to another, moving one school from one old facility to a new facility, changing the name of a school…none of those things will solve anything. Not a thing. If anything, they will worsen the already precarious educational options.
Dannyboy prides himself on being the snarkiest, smartest (so he thinks) person in the world. His kids are through school and he likely does not own his home so he has absolutely nothing invested in this. He wants to help the few at the expense of the many and seems to spend all of his extensive free time misinterpreting people’s posts for the sake of being provocative – very Trumpian of him.
I am all for helping out the students in 191 as everyone deserves an adequate education. But lifting them up by dragging down all of the other neighborhood schools is not the right answer. And that is what most of these rezoning plans will accomplish. I am not opposed to moving these students into the new school building so that they get the benefit of the best facilities available, as that will have a positive impact on their educational quality while having minimal impact on the rest of the students in the area.
Haphazardly drawing lines based on inaccurate data (they are focused on resident population rather than those who actually attend public schools), not thinking of the secondary and tertiary impact of changes (such as that many current 452 families will not actually send their kids to a school 20 blocks away), and not having a detailed plan for every inch of facility space (what are they doing with the old 452 space?) is not the way to go about making a change that will have a huge impact on many people’s lives. One of my major oppositions to making changes for 2017 was that this building was not supposed to be done until 2018, so I am slightly more OK with this now, but based on where things stood at the last meeting (where they had admittedly done a lot of hard work and made much progress), there is too far to go to effectively implement changes for 2017.
One last thought – I really wish the parents who are currently at 191 would speak up a bit more. All of the proposed changes will impact them but they seem to be largely silent. Let us know what you want. And for those in the Amsterdam Houses consider yourself blessed that NYCHA has put you in a housing development in one of the nicest parts of NYC rather than a more crime infested area like where most other NYCHA developments are. I wish all of the people like Dannyboy who seem to want to devote their lives to educational equality would focus some of their efforts to those neighborhoods as well.
“Dannyboy, they make a great point. Like Trump…”
Tom, these insults do not help convice me of the sincerity of whatever it is you were trying to say.
Dannyboy, they make a great point. Like Trump, you are using your alleged sarcasm to distract from the fact that you are only tangentially addressing the issue at hand. I’m guessing that if one of your students addressed you in the tone you use here they would not have done very well in your class.
Sam
From “You are entitled (and encouraged) to disagree, but constructively. The tone of your comments is insulting to all of the other posters here.” YOU WENT INTO: “As he said, it is like Trump”
Who’s being Snarky????
Dannyboy,
I agree with Juan. It sounds like perhaps you could add some valuable insights to this conversation based on your experiences. But you only choose to make snarky, snide comments. These accomplish absolutely nothing. You are entitled (and encouraged) to disagree, but constructively. The tone of your comments is insulting to all of the other posters here. Perhaps Juan went overboard a bit but I share his frustrations. As he said, it is like Trump – drown out dialogue about solutions to problems with sarcasm. I think you are better than that.
Juan, your attempts to disenfranchise those with differring opinions is apparant.
Writing:’His kids are through school and he likely does not own his home so he has absolutely nothing invested in this’ is disingenuous, not to mention unAmerican.
Of course I have a vested interest in my neighborhood and its schools. Do only the monied have a say? Do you want to decide for everyone what should be? Does your money give you special privileges (other than acting so Privileged?)
Then to follow up with your insincere words: “wish all of the people like Dannyboy who seem to want to devote their lives to educational equality would focus some of their efforts to those neighborhoods as well.” is astounding! I taught for 7 years in the Bronx. My son followed in my footsteps. You have contributed nothing but you ‘gimmee’ attitude.
Don’t try to censurwe me. I live and love the USA. You?
“I don’t want this BS back and forth, beating around the bush crap year in and year out.” – David Collins
Your mischaracterization of the Zoning work being done, suggests that the Public Schools are just not for you.
Go issue your mandates at a private.
“you just getting increasingly aggravated with his Trump like sarcasm.”
Juan, you continue to misreprest me to others. What’s wrong with you?
David – don’t feed the beast. Ignore Dannyboy or he will have you just getting increasingly aggravated with his Trump like sarcasm.
Zoning? What zoning?
I thought they were zoning five and six years ago? And yet here we are.
Did they not zone back when they started PS 452? Did they not zone more recently in a failed attempt around PS 199? Did they not try all sorts of things around PS 191 before?
Please!
I completely agree. To leave out some deeper re-org of 191 is missing the point. The upgrade in facility will do nothing to improve it. 191 needs new zoning and it needs a shake-up of some admin and teachers.
“I completely agree” that my children should get the best of everything, and that those ‘191 population’ should be deprived.
Is that it?
I thought the facility that PS 191 occupies currently was going to have a new school organization move in and use it once PS 191 moved into the new space.
Noreaster – Under on of the DOE’s 2 current rezoning pland, the DOE will move PS 452 from its location on 77th Street into the vacated 191 space. Under the second of the 2 plans, the DOE would open a new school in that location. The DOE has admitted at numerous meetings that opening a new school in the old 191 space (rather than moving 452) will provide for more seats in the southern part of the district, but my impression is that the DOE really wants to move 452.
Maybe for once the DOE should think a bit long term and open a new school so that we aren’t talking about rezoning in 5 years.
Under the first plant, what exactly would be resolved by moving PS 452 from its current location at 77th Street into the vacated 191 space? And, how is this even possible given they are almost 20 blocks and 1-2 avenue apart? That would be a fairly significant rezoning and where would the current PS 452 families go then – families in the high 70s or low 80s will not be going to a school on 61st street.
Under the second of the two plans, the DOE would open a new school in the current PS 191 location. Why not just leave PS 191 where it is (and PS 452 where it is) and open a new school in a new location? Simply moving a school that has the issue PS 191 does will solve nothing, certainly can’t see how it will address poor teachers/administration/students/pta… And, moving a new school into a location that has been looked down upon and for so long may not do wonders for the school either. The DOE might just end-up with TWO poor performing schools!
David – The original DOE plan was to open a brand new school in the new space (P.S. 342 – they even went so far as to give it a name that I cannot recall). Then the DOE was going to rezone 199 and 191, but the 199 parents created an uproar and the DOE pulled the rezoning plan off the table.
With respect to moving 452, the current families would be zoned for 452 on 61st even though their physical address would have a different zone (P.S. 87 or P.S. 199). The DOE has said that a current 452 parent could try to get into one of those other schools once the rezone takes place, but the reality is those schools are already at capacity so there will be no spaces for the 452 students.
You’re right – MS191 (the building) is going to get either (A) PS452 or (B) a new school.
The entire narrative of “we’re going to do more for our students because of these great new resources” sickens me. Other students will go into the vacated space in MS191… do we expect them to receive a substandard education because they don’t have the resources the new building has?
Not sure what the exact details are. But its seems clear that there will not be two schools, this is not going to bring added school seats to the area. “All” this will do will be to afford a better facility to PS 191 families and for the city to utilize the current PS 191 facility in some other fashion – including likely selling it so apartments can go up.
In other words, it solves nothing other than DeBlasio’s agenda.
Time for the parens at PS 452 to create an uproar!
Last year it was PS 199 so this year it’s PS 452’s turn.
And if the DOE let PS 199 get away with their demands then so should they let PS 452 with theirs.
How on Earth are families currently zoned for PS 452 – likely living in the high 70s and low 80s – going to go down to 61st?
Just about everyone can walk to the public school except PF 452 families?!?!
The DOE should leave PS 452 as is, PS 87 as is, PS 199 as is, improve PS 191, AND, open a new school (PS 342) somewhere in the area (the location on 61st would be fine though something further than just a block away from PS 191 would be best).
“Time for the parens at PS 452 to create an uproar!
Last year it was PS 199 so this year it’s PS 452’s turn.
And if the DOE let PS 199 get away with their demands then so should they let PS 452 with theirs.” – David Collins
TAKE TO THE STREETS
MAKE POSTERS
THROW A TANTRUM!
David – I’ve been to many meetings about this issue and I think the fix is in by the DOE against 452. By the DOE’s own admission, the rezoning proposal that does not include relocating 452, achieves the DOE’s objectives of reducing overcrowding and diversifying. In addition, this proposal provides for additional sections if necessary.
Yet, all the DOE wants to do is talk about moving 452 (and don’t get me started about how this move was suggested and how parents found out about it)….
ALL THE PARENTS OF THE SCHOOLS AGREE. THE ISSUE IS THE DOE AND CEC3. The answer is a charter school. Success Academy has two schools in the top ten of all NYC public schools. These two schools serve low income neighborhoods. While Success Academy is not the right school for everyone, they have proven themselves to have unbelievable success in very difficult circumstances.
The DOE is trying to sweep under the rug a failing school which they have not idea how to fix by burying the unfortunate kids in PS 191 into several other schools. The result is instead of several great schools you have several mediocre schools. All the DOE is concerned with is protecting their turf.
“The answer is a charter school.” ANON
Go for it!
David,
It isn’t that easy to improve 191. The student body is poor. Putting aside that this usually means less educated parents and more non-English speakers there is the issue of money. The better schools raise a million dollars a year. They have assistant teachers in every classroom. They have art. They have chess. They have air conditioners. The DOE doesn’t pay for these things.
If PS 191 is moved into a shiny new building the DOE hopes that some of the parents in the new condos in the zone with give it a try. Those parents and their money can possibly change the school.
IML splitting the Amsterdam Houses among the new building, the old 191 building and 199 would be the best solution but the ps 199 parents are strongly against this.
The DOE is smoking crack if they think families in the Gleenwood rental building or one of the other newly built rental buildings around WEA and 61st street will send their kids to a new version of PS 191 – two bedroom apartments are going for over $7,000 – these families will send little Tom to private school or will spend money on tutors and get him into a G&T.
Fixing a school is never easy but it can be fixed. If the DOE can’t fix PS 191, then best we all take up homeschooling and fire everyone at the DOE. Schools with a more challenging student body and less resources do better.
PS 199 is a shadow of what is used to be. Both PS 87 and PS 452 are much better, not to mention many other PS schools around the city. PS 199 is not great shakes – parents whose kids are there will try to convince you and themselves that is not the case, but it is.
The PS 452 parents should take a page from the PS 199 parens and block this. My bet is that they do.
“then best we all take up homeschooling” david Collins
Go for it!
No need.
One thing no one discusses is why aren’t they moving Anderson? It’s a city-wide G and T located in the most densely populated area? I’m rather confident that any parent whose child got into Anderson would be more than happy to take that child anywhere.
Celia302 – That is a very good question. I’ve been told by lots of people that Anderson (even though it is a city-wide program and whose attendance numbers are dwindling) is “untouchable”. Others have said there is some agreement between Anderson and the DOE (but no one can find such agreement)
I have also argued for moving Anderson. Students come from all over the city to go there (including other boroughs) so moving it a few blocks would have a minimal impact. However, its attendance numbers are far from dwindling. It is arguably the most desirable public school in NYC. They could fill their classes ten times over, but are able to choose only kids who score 99 on the test. If they wanted to triple the size of Anderson, they could fill the seats.
I am absolutely certain that once kids who, for whatever reason do not take school seriously, start hobnobbing with kids that do take school seriously, everything will be great. Wait until other countries figure this out, this is going to be huge!
When are people going to realize that you can’t make a child who doesn’t care about school, doesn’t do the homework, and who doesn’t have parents who care about school, start caring about school and do better in school by adding money to the school, getting the best teachers in the world, or changing to nicer facilities? Oh sure, a great teacher MIGHT be able to turn one kid of out 200 around, but by and large, the school’s fancy computers, digs, and the quality of the teachers is almost meaningless compared to the home life and priorities of the student and the student’s parents. As long as we continue to avoid this truth, we are going to be wasting a lot of time and money and never start getting to the bottom of the issue.
In summary:
BAD children + BAD parents = Undeserving
neighborly
No!
What he means is that bad students and bad parents are NOT the responsibility of the city!
If neither the student or the parents care about education, there is nothing the government can (or should) do.
If neither the student or the parents care about eating healthy, there is nothing the government can (or should) do.
Dear Mr david,
I participated a great deal in moving this decision. I attended CEC3 Meetings and Zoning Committee Meetings and helped identify the blatent Segregation existing in the lower district schools.
I used the “podium” to highlight that disgrace and DOE statistics to prove it.
I know my contribution.
So just keep writing about why you wish the decision was different. If wishes were fishes…
David,
Clearly you do not want the students from P.S. 191 to have access to an equal education. That time has passed with the Federal implementation of the Civil Rights Act.
My wifw worked at P.S. 191 training tutors and saw the great potential in the students there. By your remarks, clearly you don’t. And why should you, it doesn’t benefit you personally, so why care.
If you wish, there are Private Schools, Charter Schools, Home Schooling and a plethora of other educational choices for you to make.
You contributed to failure – you should be ashamed of yourself.
The same goes for your so called comments on this board.
This decision will either not go through the same way other decisions around PS 199 did not go through. or if by chance it does, it will only lead to yet another failed attempt to improve the quality of education of the children living in this part of NYC.
Working hard does not equate to working smart.
David Collins, you made the amateur mistake of replying to dannyboy. You see, dannyboy likes to talk about dannyboy. He likes to the attention. He doesn’t actually care about any of this. He posts early on each and every article here, then spends days arguing with people by inciting them disingenously. We here ignore him since WSR has no ignore feature.
“bad students and bad parents” – David Collins
real neighborly!
Oh no, you take the cake on that. Credit to credit is due. You my friend have the podium all to yourself. Time to move on bud and get yourself a life before its too late.