By Gus Saltonstall
The Center School auditorium was near max capacity Thursday night for a meeting between representatives from the New York City Department of Education School District 3 and members of the Upper West Side school community.
The topic at hand? A “potential proposal” to relocate the Center School from its current home at West 84th Street and Columbus Avenue to the P.S. 191 building at 300 West 61st Street, while also “truncating,” i.e., eliminating the middle school grades of P.S. 191, so it will only serve grades 3-K through fifth.
Hundreds of Center School current students, parents, alumni, and teachers filled the auditorium on Thursday evening to listen to the presentation from the school district and share their thoughts.
“I am not responsible for how this process began, I am responsible for how this process unfolds,” Interim Acting District 3 Superintendent Reggie Higgins said to begin the meeting. Higgins has only been in the job for a matter of weeks after the previous superintendent for the UWS district, Kamar Samuels, was named the new school chancellor for the Mamdani administration. “I want to hear from you,” Higgins said.
The presentation was then led by Deputy Superintendent Mariele Graham, who stated that the possible Center School move was related to student enrollment and class size, and the upcoming class size cap for all New York City public schools, where class sizes must be no greater than 20 to 25 students, depending on grade level, by the start of the 2028 school year.
“This building has been overused for years,” Graham told the room. “It’s been at least at 105 percent capacity since 2021.” The Center School shares the West 84th Street building with the P.S. 9 elementary school.
Graham went on to say that the Department of Education had been considering a possible move for the Center School since November 2024, when it toured the shuttering Manhattan Country School at 150 West 85th Street.
She added that working groups had begun in January 2025 to more broadly discuss the state of School District 3, which eventually led to discussions about a possible Center School relocation plan that included invitations to the middle school’s principal, PTA president, and parent coordinator, and that this group continued to meet this school year to discuss possible scenarios.
When it came to the possible P.S. 191 building relocation, Graham added that the school district was looking into theater space near the building that the Center School would be able to share, and mentioned fields in Riverside Park that might be open by this fall as a substitute for the loss of the large yard part of the school’s current building.
Following Graham’s remarks, different members of the Center School community spoke, many pushing back against the sentiment that the relocation plan had been discussed and urging for more time and thought to go into any possible move.
“To say this [the possible move] has been discussed, no it hasn’t,” one parent leader with multiple children at the Center School said to the room. “Maybe with you and a few other people, behind closed doors, but it clearly didn’t include parent engagement.”
A different leader of the Center School PTA said, “We all want what is best for the kids, and we need the appropriate time and space to come to that decision.”
The meeting continued with a variety of speakers from the Center School community, including multiple women who went to the school themselves and now have their own children attending. “She always told me how special the Center School was, and she was right,” a current student said about her mom.
“We are deeply concerned about the lack of community engagement with this process,” a different parent said. “We want to be heard. We want a seat at the table.”
Also at the meeting was a parent from P.S. 191, who spoke about the possible move from their side. Earlier this month, the school started a petition called “Save Riverside School For Makers and Artists Middle School.”
“We, the families of The Riverside School for Makers and Artists (PS/IS 191) and other stakeholders in District 3, strongly oppose the proposed dissolution of the middle school at PS/IS 191,” reads the petition, which has been signed by 365 people. “We demand that any proposed change be postponed until at least Fall 2035, ensuring that all current students—including families with incoming kindergarteners who enrolled or planned to enroll with the reasonable expectation of a K–8 pathway—are able to graduate through 8th grade.”
As stated by a DOE official, the choice to possibly dissolve the Riverside School for Makers and Artists Middle School is separate from the situation at the Center School, but because the space at the West 61st Street school could soon become available, it became a viable option as a potential future home for the Center School.
A sixth-grade student at the Riverside School commented on the petition, “We love our school. Please don’t kick us out. We would have to travel far and won’t be with our friends because we aren’t all going to the same school. I’ve been here since pre-K.”
Multiple steps need to still take place if the Center School relocation to the P.S./I.S. 191 building were to happen this upcoming fall, including the publication of an Educational Impact Statement, a Joint Public Hearing with the affected school communities, a Public Comment Analysis, and an eventual vote by the Panel for Educational Policy (PEP) board.
WSR plans to publish a larger article at a later date related to the situation at The Riverside School for Makers and Artists.
Read More:
Subscribe to West Side Rag’s FREE email newsletter here. And you can Support the Rag here.
This article missed the part where we heard video of the Chancellor, as recently as October, expressly telling school leadership that there were no plans to move Center School.
It also missed the fact that Center School students have to practice with the specific lighting and sound and curtains of their stage— twice a week. How much time in the day are they supposed to spend walking to and from the stage? This is not a reasonable solution, and it is not even guaranteed that they will find a stage they are allowed to use.
The theater program, with everyone in it, is a huge part of what builds the center school community. The center school community is what has made it a supportive and successful school. I understand everyone is worried about space, and it’s hard to think of theater as anything extra. But Center School parents and teachers know what makes it work so well, and have compromised for years in order to hold on to those things. The school will move, it doesn’t need bells and whistles, they’ll take small rooms and not enough rooms and no frills— but they need a stage and space for shared recess. That is what makes the school work.
“The school will move, it doesn’t need bells and whistles, they’ll take small rooms and not enough rooms and no frills— but they need a stage and space for shared recess. ” This is reasonable.
He did not say there were no plans. You are stating misinformation. He said that it was not happening yet. He also said it will happen because it is not feasible-she cut her tape so you didn’t hear that part. This is why people are being misinformed because you have part of stories.
The fact that the school has got to look at 3 different locations and nothing is good enough and bc they don’t like the “neighborhood” of 191 is not a reason. It’s 20 blocks away. Not far at all.
No other schools get to look at locations for moves. It is just getting dragged out.
do you live in nyc? 20 blocks away is absolutely far – you’re in a totally different neighborhood at that point.
He said there were no plans, in those words, and Center is worried about the facilities, not the neighborhood. Suggesting that at some vague distant point Center would have to move, that we are looking for a place that *works,* is not a reason for Center to accept schools that would involve major sacrifices, and not a reason for Center not to point out those problems.
The district has already acknowledged the “stage” at 191 won’t work, and suggested alternates that 1) would require walking out of the school to other schools or institutions for large numbers of Center students, twice a week, wasting valuable instructional time and 2) aren’t promises but vague ideas that might possibly get approval from the home schools or institution.
Center is asking for one year, knowing it will move, to find a place that can work. 9 could do 1 year of music in classrooms, or 1 year of services in disappointing spaces or 1 year of art in classrooms or 1 year of pre k in the other building (that isn’t 20 blocks away, that other local elementaries are having to do…)
What is the misinformation? He clearly and without equivocating said “there are no plans to move the Center School.” Even if we assume you are correct that he also said it would have to happen at some point, he absolutely told them as recently as October that there were no plans. Then suddenly it’s all but a done deal? They’ve said they know they’ll need to move, and just ask for time to try to find an alternative that works and real engagement – again, where’s the misinformation? Are you saying parents at Center and throughout D3 and the City should understand that this is what family engagement looks like? Everyone should expect better.
He stated, word for word “there are no plans to move Center School.” Just listened to the clip again. Having been asked repeatedly and specifically about the timeline and what Center School should be worrying about, because leadership wanted to be able to discuss with parents (which they were told not to do), those are the exact words he used in October.
Center is looking for a school that can support its program, not a specific neighborhood. Unlike PS 9’s demands for a pre-k in the same building, which other schools (like 87) have been denied.
Not to mention that 9 is demanding not to relinquish even a single specialized room for a single year, specialized rooms that other schools (including Center and 87) have compromised on for years. Everyone should have them but most schools don’t— I can’t think of another school that has all of them— and all center is asking for us flexibility with it for a single year.
The district has already acknowledged this school cannot support the program, and is suggesting that huge numbers of students leave school twice a week to travel to some other school or institution to support their program instead. How much instructional time will that erase? And the solutions the district is proposing for this and other problems aren’t even items they can promise— they’re ideas and hopes.
And Center has readily accepted that the move will happen. It is only asking for time to look for a place that can support its program.
The one (or possibly two) PS9 pre-k classrooms have almost no impact on this decision, so the Center School fans who keep obsessing over this are not doing themselves any favors.
It seems like there are some people being reasonable here and others who are not.
This should not be done next year. PS9 should figure out how to make things work as is for a year. But for the following year, it seems like Center has to go. Let’s try to find a place that works for them. I have suggested a bunch of times moving Anderson. But whatever the decision is, figure it out sooner rather than later so that people have plenty of advanced notice.
Worst case, traveling to the current PS191 is not a huge burden for middle schoolers. The average D3 middle school student travels pretty far. Tons of kids from near PS191 travel to Booker, and I know many kids from near Center who travel to WESS, which is near 191.
But stop obsessing over trivial objections to this, as the strip you of all credibility. Eschew obfuscation.
Leon, I see you trying to be reasonable here . One way that Center is very different is that it accepts fifth graders. Because of the City’s inane birthday policy, my child will be 9 for the first three months of fifth grade as will other students there. I have another child with the latest possible birthday – Kamar Samuels himself rejected our request to hold that child back and now I’m paying for weekly Orton-Gillingham tutoring to get them to grade level- who would be 9 for the first four months of fifth grade I’ve walked from PS 9/Center School to public transit at night and I’ve walked the area from 191 to public transit at night. Frankly one area is much safer for kids travelling solo at nighttime . The speed of cars on the streets and avenues by W 61st v W 84th St is wildly different. I’m sure this is an issue for kids attending 191 too but all those kids are at least 10 because 191 is grades 6-8.
The other issue here is that Center is one of the few schools in the district that really pull kids from all over the district so situating it at the bottom of the district feels pretty shortsighted.
Leon, appreciate you being a reasonable voice here!
As I commented under the other article, no matter what one thinks of the specifics here, EVERYONE who cares about the school system should be pushing back against the DOE’s approach. Secrecy, gaslighting, piecemeal decisions, withholding information from families until after the application cycle, trying to stymie cooperation between schools, blocking press (probably illegally) from a public meeting — who thinks this is ok? And, similar issues are brewing at other D3 schools; admin and parents don’t want to air it publicly while trying to work things out with the DOE, which is also part of the problem with how the DOE operates behind closed doors while claiming transparency. The process has been abysmal and seemingly intentionally so. It’s a disgrace.
As quoted in the article, the new superintendent told families, ““I am not responsible for how this process began, I am responsible for how this process unfolds.” He’s only been in the role a few weeks, and I don’t envy him having inherited this mess. Hopefully he will slow things down, give Center the year they are asking for, and make sure that the way it unfolds from here for all D3 schools that will need to make changes in the coming 1-2 years is very different from how it has gone so far.
Clearly from a PS 9 parent which revels in its elite excluding programming.
It’s not the neighborhood- it’s stripping this unique and highly successful school of resources that are essential to its curriculum and program philosophy.
NYC public schools are far too aggressive in their push to expand citywide enrollment at the same time that the law requires schools to start reducing class sizes. It’s producing conflicts like this one across the entire city! The new Superintendent of District 3 has a chance to course-correct here and now. Slow down. Stop pitting families and schools against one another. The city’s educational goals can be met, but only by moving thoughtfully and carefully. Don’t rush the process! One school’s win plus another school’s loss does not equal an overall win.
How does moving Center have anything to do with a “push to expand citywide enrollment?!?!” Citywide enrollment is largely beyond the control of ANY administration, as we saw in the pandemic and the migrant surge.
Is there really a push to increase enrollment then?
Did anyone suggest my proposal of moving Center School to where Anderson is? Seems like a really easy solution assuming people aren’t too afraid of the great and powerful Anderson.
Also, would love for WSR to do a deeper dive on PS9’s enrollment. There were lots of likely unfounded rumors in the last thread about that. That is the cause of this situation so more details on that would be helpful.
Also, was there any discussion about why this can’t wait a year given that you noted that the deadline is 2028? As much as I have some issues with the drama from some of the Center School constituents, I do fully agree that despite what the DOE argues, this seems to have been sprung on them at the last second and would be more tolerable if it was being proposed for 2027 so there was more time to consider alternatives, adapt, and reduce the number of people directly impacted.
I attended the meeting. There wasn’t any discussion about specific alternatives (yet). The consistent ask from Center School last night was for (1) time to look at alternatives that actually suit their needs and (2) real engagement during that time. I assumed your excellent suggestion would be one of the alternatives they then look at, but other commenters may know better if it’s a nonstarter or if times and politics have changed enough to consider it.
One of my takeaways was that the DOE appears to keep decision processes about different schools very separate and opaque, making it hard for schools to work together on informed and sensible counterproposals to the DOE’s preferred approach. Credit to Center School for inviting PS191 to speak last night, since they are affected by this and aren’t getting as much attention. Even this cynic believes that Center families truly do not want to be used to displace 191, which has its own upsetting and newsworthy story. ( WSR says it’s working on that, and I hope people will see how that school has been treated and why the DOE should work to support those families not abandon them.)
No answer at all from the DOE last night on their reason for why this is being rushed or can’t wait until 2027. The deputy superintendent defensively presented a timeline and claimed that Center leadership and parents had been informed, which was almost immediately shown to be untrue by a recording that was played of Chancellor (then Superintendent) Samuels at one of their recent meetings clearly saying “there is no plan to move Center School.” One can only imagine how gaslit the school community would have been if that meeting hadn’t been recorded! If the DOE still says that Center staff and families were informed despite that, then at least we have been shown how much to believe their stated commitment to honesty, integrity, transparency, and engagement.
The Anderson building has 3 schools already.
I believe that it was their admin at Center who could have provided families what was being said at these meetings. No one is bringing that point up. They knew according to all this.
“The Anderson building.” LOL. Families at The Computer School and Dual-Language, don’t kid yourselves: this reveals a mindset. Anderson needs more space by 2028 too so get ready to give it up. “No plans” turns into eviction super fast with this DoE. By the time they “engage,” the decision is made.
They knew according to all of what? Where do you see any evidence that they knew? We’ve seen evidence that they were expressly told a move was not coming, by your own admission (above) they were at least told that a move was not coming this soon.
Parent engagement means honestly telling parents if something like this is being considered and what their options are. Not saying “there are no plans to move Center School.” Above you acknowledged that he affirmatively said a move was not imminent. He said that in October when, for instance, 5th grade parents still could have applied out.
If what he meant was “you have to move by September 2026 so you better go find a way to make something work” 1) that’s a funny way to say it, 2) real parent engagement would have included being honest about the situation— that a move is imminent— and presenting a few options.
Engagement also requires actually hearing parent input. Saying “there’s no immediate move, what do you think of this place” isn’t engagement when you completely ignore everyone responding “that place doesn’t work because the thing my student does twice a week and every day at lunch if they’re on tech will have to be done in an entirely different building that you don’t even have an agreement with yet.” Engagement means listening because parents and faculty know what the school needs.
Now we know we have to move, give us a year to make a move that can work.
Leon – Based on my experience during the last rezoning (which included conversations with multiple elected officials), no one wants to take on Anderson. It seems like moving Anderson is something no-one wants to touch. I don’t know if it is still the case, but at the time, there were a number of elected officials and DOE officials who sent their children to Anderson. Good luck to anyone who wants to fight that fight.
452 was a general education school located outside its catchment zone created so that white families from the southern part of D3 wouldn’t have to send their children to a gen ed school with a housing project within its catchment zone. The 452 catchment zone did not have enough students within its boundary to fill the school so it was opened up to all D3. White and/or affluent families from Harlem enrolled their kids there. Anderson was supposed to move for that? Before any comments that Anderson families “segregate” their children, Anderson is a special program; 452 is a general education program.
Yes, but with the very limited number of middle schools available in district 3 compared to district 2 it becomes more and more necessary to ask why the UWS should continue to be on the hook for devoting a large school building to a school for children that largely do not reside in the district. . .
Whether or not they should have or shouldn’t have moved is irrelevant to the point I am making. Politicians and DOE officials made it clear that they weren’t touching Anderson ever.
And it looks like your own comments already did the segregating…..”special” versus “gen ed.” Is Center School a special program or gen ed program? If you consider it gen ed does that mean that moving Anderson shouldn’t be on the table??
At the time of that rezoning, there was one Anderson parent who was an elected official and one who was employed at the DOE. Two parents does not make a “number of elected officials and DOE officials.” Your comment is typical of the hyperbole heard from very entitled, southern D3 white parents at the time. If anything, the person Center School parents should be mad at is Leonie Haimson. She is the one who has been selfishly pushing this “small classroom” agenda, because it fits her idea of what equity is, even though she hasn’t been a public school parent since the 90s. Instead, you and Leon went the insecure parent route and scapegoated Anderson. As I said below, it’s pathetic. .
Also, every 452 family who wanted a transfer to another school instead of moving to the new 452 location got one. Every. Family. You need to reassess the real issue “no one wants to take on.”
What are you even talking about? Do (or did your children go to Anderson)?
My children were not at any of the impacted schools but there was talk of other schools being involved so I followed along and actually met with multiple politicians. I can only relay what I was told at the time.
And mind you — not once in any of my comments have I said that Anderson should have moved during the last rezoning or should be moved as part of this potential move. All of I have said is that people will find a lot of roadblocks and not many people of power interested in taking on the school so I think you anger toward me is completely misplaced and misguided.
A quick Google search tells me there are about 250 students at Center School and slightly over 500 at Anderson. So if you move Center into the Amderson space there are a lot of empty classroom and you have to find a building with soace for 500 students. I’m guessing the PS 191 building can’t hold that many.
Anderson’s space can’t be looked at on its own. It is collocated with Computer School and the Dual-Language School. There is not enough room in that building for those schools to coexist and comply with the class size cap. One or more of them will need to move by Sept 2028 to give space to the other(s). Dual Language may be the most vulnerable since it’s smallest. On the other hand, since it’s small, that may not be enough. So, maybe Computer is most vulnerable. Or they both are, But where would they go? Or does it make more sense as Leon points out to relocate a citywide K-8 school that isn’t required to be in D3 and free up some space in that building for another D3 school? There’s no answer that will please everyone but the DOE should be having transparent conversations about all of this now, seeking input from families, and addressing decisions rationally at a systemwide planning level, not the hurried one-off mess of whatever they’re doing now
This is a great point and one that I have been trying to make. The DOE needs to stop with piecemeal school moves/relocations/co-locations, etc. and needs to have open and honest conversations about long term viability of all schools in the District and what can be done to ensure success for all students.
If we know that one of the schools in that building is going to have to move in 2-3 years, put it on the table now and have discussions with all stakeholders.
Anderson is a D3 school. It was created by D3 parents for D3 students.
This is misleading. Maybe Anderson was started by D3 parents for D3 students but that is no longer the case. The school is a city wide program that enrolls students from all over the City.
It’s one thing to criticize me like you have done in this thread, its another thing to post false information — and WSR you should fact check statements like this.
Beth, this is untrue. Talk about misleading! I mean, it’s so easily verified and stated on their own website and DOE sites.
To help other readers sort through what is true and what is at best misdirection:
From the very first answer on Anderson’s FAQ for K-5, available on their website’s admissions section: “Anderson is a citywide accelerated school and students living in all five boroughs may apply. ” The second FAQ also distinguishes that district G&T programs draw students from the local district only, whereas Anderson is for all students in the city. Their page for middle school admissions says “Anderson welcomes applications from motivated, hard-working students of all races, ethnic and economic backgrounds living in any of the five boroughs.” The DOE MySchool’s information also lists admissions to K as being “Citywide G&T” and Middle School as being Priority 1 to continuing students and Priority 2 to “NYC residents” (no D3 or even Manhattan priority). In contrast, admissions priority to both Computer School and Center School is first to siblings, then to D3 students and residents, then citywide; Dual-Language admissions is first to D3 residents, then to Manhattan, then to citywide.
This is so easily looked up, it’s bizarre and brazen that a commenter would assert otherwise and think it does anything but undermine the credibility of all their (already questionable) claims and statements.
From Wikipedia: The Anderson School PS 334 is a New York City school for children in grades kindergarten through 8 from the city’s five boroughs. It was founded thirty-eight years ago (September 1987) as The Anderson Program under the stewardship of PS 9.[1] The New York City Department of Education (DOE) spun off Anderson in July 2005 as a stand-alone school — PS 334.
Yes those are the Admission Requirements but that is different from who and why the school was founded in the very beginning.
That may be correct, but the poster’s comment is misleading at best. Perhaps it started as a D3 school, but that’s not what it is now nor has it been for many years. So, to say “Anderson is a D3 school” is false.
Thank you. The Anderson hate is really pathetic.
This isn’t Anderson hate (though there are way too many entitled Anderson families). It is being practical. Anderson could be anywhere. It is a city wide school. Put it on Staten Island or Canarsie. I don’t really care.
This is a exercise in optimizing resources given constraints. There is nothing attaching Anderson to the UWS. Center is a D3 school that only draws from D3. So it should have priority for D3 space over Anderson (it is confusing to some that the building that Ps9 and Center are currently in is called Anderson – ignore that).
When I initially proposed this I made the caveat that the numbers had to work – I wasn’t sure if they do. Someone else accurately pointed out that Computer School is bursting from the seams, so it would easily absorb some of the extra space. Center could be expanded if given more space. And give Dual language more space. Or throw a few more random Pre-K classes in the building. I don’t know. All I know is this seems like an easy solution but as others have noted, Anderson is constantly a sacred cow that does not deserve any geographic priority.
Let’s start working on this ASAP so we can come up with a solution that is best for the most D3 parents and make a decision quickly so people have adequate time to make their own decisions in response to this.
I don’t get the Anderson hate at all. Full disclosure — I had one of my kids attend Anderson.
Where is there hate though? There are a couple of statements that Anderson has or historically had power or connections such that city officials did not want to broach the topic of moving it. Maybe that’s an incorrect impression – I don’t know – but I don’t see anyone saying Anderson is awful or really anything about them except that the idea of moving them has historically been a nonstarter.
There are comments that can be taken as disparaging to the Anderson community = rich PTA, want to stay away from the Projects. Oh it’s there. Elite program. It’s all there.
What this article neglects to mention is that the children of PS9 will also face significant negative consequences if more classrooms are not made available. This is a state law that the school needs to abide by.
Giving more time, as other commenters suggest is not the right move. In order to meet the class size mandates next school year, and without more space to do so, PS9’s service provider classrooms will have to close and children receiving services (OT, PT, Speech therapy, etc) will no longer have a dedicated space to meet their needs. They will have to receive services in the hallways, which lacks privacy and comfort, creates distraction, and ultimately impacts their success.
I understand the need for key spaces to support the Center School’s curriculum and the anxiety around dissolving the 191 middle school; however, equity and inclusion are foundational to the PS9 community, and decisions that undermine resources for the most vulnerable students contradict those principles.
In following years, art, music, science, technology, and library will lose their space, these are key elements of the PS9 curriculum (much like the Center School theater program) and removing them in their current state is unfair to the children.
My suggestion to the editor, is to simply include the implications on all sides to all populations, not just those that are getting “kicked out”.
A waiver from the DOE is all PS9 needs to keep things exactly as they are now, while Center School finds an appropriate place to relocate. These waivers have already been issued for schools across the city facing similar challenges.
So, PS 9 has rooms for “ art, music, science, technology, and library,” but it will choose to kick the IEP services into the hallway first?
Unless it can entirely kick out Center, which has already made do with staff offices and even sometimes instruction in former closets, in order to preserve what makes the school magic.
I get it. Why should PS 9 have to sacrifice anything, even for one year?
“So, PS 9 has rooms for “ art, music, science, technology, and library,” but it will choose to kick the IEP services into the hallway first?”
You must be aware that entire classes take art, music, tech, & science, all of these subjects require special equipment & more space, while IEP services are one-on-one & do not require art supplies, musical instruments, science equipment, etc.
It’s absurd to suggest specials classes could occur in a hallway. But your anti PS9 bias is clear (btw, I’m not a PS9 parent.)
The original post stated moving services to hallways was unacceptable and “equity and inclusion” required avoiding that…. And then stated all these other specialized rooms that could be utilized instead. If it will destroy services to move them, 9 is already well aware of other options.
Special classes can be pushed into the classroom, instruments can be held in closets and taken out when needed, services can be offered in former storage areas (we experienced that at 87). Particularly if only for one year. Music can be taught without a music room, if services cannot be offered in repurposed rooms. Art can take one year without the larger equipment.
Every other school I know in the district is already making many of these sacrifices. Center already repurposed closets for offices in order to protect what makes the school amazing. Yet 9 insists on making *no* compromises, even for a year, even in the face of the state of every other school in the district? That is absurd.
Musical instruments can be held in storage rooms, other schools have services in former storage rooms, PS 9 is already thinking about ways to push things like music into the classroom instead of having a separate room, and it is entirely possible to do that productively, especially if only for one year.
And the original post emphasized the harm to IEP services, claimed to be interested in equity, claimed the harm is unacceptable, and in the same breath mentioned several other options that would avoid the harm (options 9 is already planning for!) that 9 is unwilling to use first.
Most other schools in the district have already had to compromise on these things. PS 9 is refusing to make *any* of the compromises so many other schools have made. Center has made these compromises— staff offices in closets for instance— in order to protect these things that are essential to its program.
Center is asking for one year.
It makes the argument sound better to say we are going to have to kick the IEP services into the hallway v. enrichment classes.
“Kicked out”? How many migrant students did PS9 take in? Because 191 WELCOMED over 300. That’s real inclusion and not just beneficial inclusion.
That is because 191 was grossly under enrolled. PS. 9 took as many as they could house.
We were not grossly underenrolled we had 17-20 students in every class of the 11 grades we serve- when we welcomed the migrants- our classes soared to about 28-30. I bet we took in more in 1 classroom than PS9 did in the whole school. So again what vulnerable children are you speaking about? Are you including 191 students? Or do we not matter?
We had the max 32 per class so guess what. We couldn’t take more kids. You were underenrolled.
Thank you!
It’s jarring to read the sentence “decisions that undermine resources for the most vulnerable students contradict those principles” (of equity and inclusion), and then realize that the commenter isn’t referring to the vulnerable students at 191!
Rich UWS parents don’t want their kids going to school near the projects. We’ve all heard this tape.
I’ve been to the PS191 building and it’s state of the art, with a huge “gymatorium” space that can easily work for theater productions. These parents are just looking for an excuse.
That’s not the case, school is just asking for more time and transparency, meaningful DOE engagement. The school was told “ NO plans to move The Center School.” by Kamar Samuels in October. There has been no transparency and no consultation of the school community. Take a look at this video from October: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DT_iEJYEfLW/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
it is absolutely a beautiful facility but seemingly won’t work for Center School (perhaps true or not). For me, the bigger issues are the fact that the DOE continues to to limit parent engagement from all potentially impacted students and families and then there is no follow-up once decisions are made. If 191 was given all of the resources they were promised over the years, I would have hoped that we wouldn’t be in a position where we are discussing closing their middle school, but here we are.
Respectfully, this just sounds knee-jerk and isn’t true to the actual facts. Are you advocating for the DOE’s (soon-to-come) proposal to truncate the existing middle school in the 191 building to make room for Center, as they plan to do against the wishes and to the detriment of that community that already feels betrayed by the DOE? Even the 191 parents say the facility, while for for purpose for their program, is not right for Center’s – do you know the space better than they do? What “excuse” are Center School families looking for when they’ve said they accept they need to move but just want a sensible process and timeline? Meanwhile, PS9 is upset about possibly having to temporarily make some of the compromises that every single other school in the district already has been making, but Center families are the ones making excuses? Cmon. There are going to need to be changes throughout the district to meet the class size mandate and school changes are always hard, but it’s reasonable for families to at least want a process that is transparent, orderly and reasonable.
That’s just not true. Their gymnatorium can’t hold the parents who come to watch the theater shows. DOE’s actual response was that the kids could put on the show without an audience or hold the shows in another school.
There should by no Intermediate Schools. All schools should be K to 8 and then high school. Keep it simple.
Pre K and 3 K are basically child care and should be housed in a child care facility along with the inevitable 2K. This is the state rearing our children. I read somewhere that the ultimate plan is to start child care at 6 weeks of age. Might as well hand the child to the state at birth and have visitation on weekends and holidays.
Community engagement is a formality to the DOE. The DOE will go through the formality of community engagement and do whatever the DOE wants to do.
Joey, if we expect people to keep having children in today’s economy, this is what we need to provide. See: France, which has a far superior educational system to ours.
Lisa, if we expect people to beep having children in today’s society we need parents to provide parenting and family ideals. The United States is not France.
Parent engagement is crucial to a good school system, however parents should not have as much power as they currently possess, and it’s clear that all parents don’t have the same power or access to power.
Every school should have art, music and theater programs, a science program, phys ed, and related services as well as a rigorous curriculum – all the programs that any good school has to ensure a rich learning environment that provides multiple ways for children to be successful. Parents should be engaged so that they can tailor programs to reflect their vision.
Right now what we seem to have ranges from quasi-private schools on the public dime for some to bare bones public schools for others.
This inequity obviously should not exist, and, painful as it may be, it’s up to the Mayor and the Chancellor to exercise their leadership and do something about it.
Spot on. Take a look at the PTA treasure chest for schools like Center and Anderson. So-called lottery or not, it’s painfully apparent who wins those “special” seats. Wealthy parents have been allowed to bulldoze their way through the public school system for too long. Remains to be seen whether the new chancellor & mayor have the guts to do anything about it.
PS 9 PTA has over $1 million in assets and raised $763k in 2024. 511 students in 2024 https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/134106823
Center PTA has $292 k in assets and raised $142k in 2024. 246 students in 2024
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/208278187
Looks like wealthy PS 9 parents are bulldozing 191 middle school and displacing Center School
Just like they’ve already bulldozed Center for years. Center had a third of the students in that building but it never used a third of the building. It didn’t have the whole third floor. And it still manages to meet the class size mandate.
Center has always been inventive in what it can and will do to protect its core curriculum. No frills, not enough rooms— fine. No auditorium, no shared recess is a bridge too far because those things are not extras. They are core.
And 9 won’t wait one year?
Actually, please do!! Let’s compare the PTA treasure chests for the three schools most immediately involved: PS 9, Center, and PS 191. Then compare, under the proposed move, who is getting everything they want immediately with no compromises at all, who is getting pushed out in a hurry to a facility that cannot support the most important parts of their program, and whose school is going to get shut down entirely after years of disgraceful treatment by the DOE. Please do walk us through that exercise and illuminate exactly which school’s wealthy and connected parents are bulldozing their way through. It would be most appreciated and revealing. And after you’ve done that, I hope you’ll still be advocating for the mayor and chancellor to stop allowing the wealthiest parent to bulldoze the others.
Good grief, PS9, the main and long standing occupant of the building needs the space to accommodate smaller classroom sizes. They have a playground suited for elementary kids and is a thriving and popular community school. The Center School – a small middle school and a rather recent addition -occupies less than a 1/3 of the building . They will obviously need to move. PS9 is overcrowded and needs the 3rd floor now. All this talk about “needs more time” is code for “let my kids graduate before you move the school.” Truth is they don’t want to move to PS 191, even though it’s in a brand new beautiful building. It’s because it’s next to a large housing project (which they will have to walk through since it’s a few blocks away from the subway) and the school they will be sharing it with doesn’t have the same student body make up as PS9 (predominantly white and wealthy). All this talk about auditorium space and outdoor areas are false flags to hide their true reasons for opposing the move.
Even if that’s the reason Center school doesn’t want to move, ALL OF THE PARENTS OF PS9 that are commenting are doing something worst by not acknowledging the students that are already there, the ones who are being kicked out, because provisions weren’t made for the influx of students. DO YOU CARE THAT THEY ARE BEING SENT AWAY? Have you guys even asked what happened? Who’s responsible? Center school has welcomed us to speak, even if we have similar goals, Is PS 9 really ok with ignoring us, and the injustice of what was done? Because then they may not get what they want?
A “brand new beautiful building” doesn’t mean one that has the specific infrastructure the school needs. Center school has had a thriving and mandatory theater arts curriculum for its 44-year history. 191 has no auditorium— it has a multipurpose room with no permanent or graded seating that is not large enough to accommodate families for shows. There is no large outdoor space for children to play. You are right to look for coded privilege issues, but that’s not the source of the concern about the 191 building.
Will the city/district provide families with a comprehensive space audit of current and future projected underutilized spaces in district 3? That’s what we’re really asking for. 191 is being presented as the only option— this is what doesn’t make sense. Especially with a chancellor who is set on consolidating schools.
Sorry but to the average person, fighting to stop a relocation of a middle school mainly because of an inadequate auditorium is nonsensical and the height of privilege. It’s almost laughable. There are plenty of other middle schools with an auditorium to your liking in D3, if this is your priority. Or better yet, there are plenty of afterschool /weekend theatre programs that are stellar.
But to most parents, quality of education, student-teacher ratio, adequate funding, strong teachers, curriculum , safety, etc. are far more important. But an auditorium – really?
Yes, it might be hard to realize the role the theater program plays, which is why Center School parents on this list keep pointing it out.
Look at the description of the school on the “about” section of school website— it specifically references the theater program. https://thecenterschool.org/about/ The first page of the school website shows the school shirts with stage curtains. https://thecenterschool.org/
Even the one paragraph description of the school on myschools specifically references the theater program.
That is because the theater program is fundamental to Center’s learning strategy. Instead of dismissing parents, take a look at what they’re saying.
… and if we’re going to be throwing around “height of privilege” I invite every D3 public school parent reading this page to look at the list of enrichment rooms PS 9 has, that the rest of us don’t. Yet PS 9 parents want to ignore Center’s fundamental curriculum, and send IEP services into hallways, rather than TEMPORARILY repurpose one of those rooms?
Center School is a theatre arts-based program. Is Bronx Science having multiple labs nonsensical? Or Special Musical School having multiple pianos nonsensical?
… or the DoE could give a single year and then force Center next year if Center isn’t acting in good faith. DoE doesn’t give up that opportunity forever just because it does the reasonable thing and makes a good faith effort to really engage with Center for one whole year.
Love the idea that Center has no claim to the building it was in for 17 years, that it hadn’t even wanted to move to but settled for (after making sure exactly these boxes were checked). Sure, it’s the Center parents who are being selfish and unreasonable. Just go ahead and ignore how many voices are from 8th grade parents who are leaving anyway, and alumni for that matter.
The logo on the t-shirts is stage curtains.
No, Center School doesn’t have much of a claim to the building. 17 years? PS9 is the original occupant and has been there for over 60 years. The building was built for them by the DOE. It serves the local UWS community as it is a neighborhood-zoned school, unlike The Center School. The extra space PS9 had was given to other schools for their use over the years but now they need it.
Love the blatant lack of care for 250 families and the core of a D3 program— because Center School has the unbelievable nerve to serve all of D3 instead of just your zone (never mind the out of zone PS9 acceptances that schools like PS87 already froze).
Your logic on “owning” the building is the best possible argument that no schools should ever co-locate. Why should any D3 family ever feel confident in their school situation if this is the way we look at school locations?
Funny that your perspective is overwhelmingly sympathetic to the needs of the “predominantly white and wealthy” (your words) community. I think there’s a word for this.
The Center School is also predominantly white and wealthy. So does that make you overwhelmingly sympathetic to this group as well?
The objection to 191 isn’t because of that school’s environs or demographics. At least not for me. I am a person of color and for today, not affluent, (although I consider myself wealthy in other ways) and my lived experience allies me with marginalized folk everywhere. And while no school community is a monolith, I hope we will all become more curious about one another. After all, we all have a vested interest in transparency, due process, mutual aid and respect. 191’s infrastructure cannot sustain the bare minimums currently required for Center to function optimally. Consequently, these losses would mean a diminution in the overall student experience and education outcomes.
It seems like PS9 will get the whole building, eventually. Center school is just asking for another year for more thoughtful planning and preparation for the relocation. I don’t think more time to find the right place is too much to ask for.
As a PS9 parent, I want to offer some missing context. This isn’t PS9 vs. Center School. It’s a state-mandated class size law that PS9 has no choice but to comply with. K-3 classes must be capped at 20 students by 2028, with phased reductions starting now.
PS9 has over 500 elementary students on two floors of a building that the DOE confirms has been at 105%+ capacity for years. We’re already out of space. Without the 3rd floor, the first rooms to go are the dedicated spaces for OT, PT, and speech therapy. That means students on IEPs would receive services in the hallway next year. After that, our elementary kids lose their library, art room, and music room.
I have empathy for Center School families. Moving is hard. But Center School is a citywide middle school that emphasizes student independence as a core value. Their families chose it knowing it requires travel. PS9 is a zoned elementary school. We can’t relocate.
This isn’t drama. It’s kids getting speech therapy in a hallway so a middle school can keep its stage.
Hey Victor! My kids both attended PS9 and my younger daughter just started at Center. I have felt privileged to be a part of both communities and I respect the administration at both schools. I understand the parent community at 9’s concern about the DOE class size requirements. No parent in our community wants to see PS9 face these choices. If you asked anyone at Center, they would tell you their hope is for 9 to be granted a DOE exemption to the class size requirements, not for 9 to relocate services.
Frankly, I think the “us vs them” narrative at play here is harmful to us all as a community. Center School is not a city wide program, it’s a district 3 middle school that historically PS9 parents have valued as a great option for middle school. I think about 10% of every class at Center are PS9 alums, even after moving to a lottery based system.
Having been through the middle school process x2, I can tell you how challenging and intimidating it is – if you thought getting into the “right” kindergarten was hard, brace yourself. As district 3 parents with children of any age, we should understand that there is a vested interest to preserve the curriculum at Center. This isn’t about privilege, although I think as parents in this district it is hard to deny that this exists throughout many of our schools. The curriculum at Center depends on many things that are not addressed adequately in the current plan. Center and its parent community do not object to moving the school. We object to a move that feels rushed, poorly thought out and has little consideration for the school, its curriculum or the student body. This doesn’t even acknowledge the community at 191. I can’t imagine the anxiety those parents are also feeling by having their school truncated with so little warning.
Maybe I am too much of an idealist at heart, but I would hope that we could join together to advocate for our entire student community. These kids, who have already faced upheaval and uncertainty thanks to COVID (5th graders were fully remote kindergarteners!) deserve better from the DOE. This is not about neighborhood or denying resources to children who need them. I appreciate the work this new administration wants to do for equity. I want to be a part of that. But this plan feels haphazard at best and will jeopardize a thriving middle school community. As I ask of the news so often nowadays, MAKE IT MAKE SENSE. All our children deserve the time and consideration it takes for a reasonable move without having detrimental effects on a partner school (191 or 9).
First of all, Center is a priority D3 school, not citywide. Second, other than that incorrect claim, nothing you’ve stated hasn’t been said already.
But PS9 wouldn’t need the space for next year if it stopped taking students from out of zone, or froze its enrollment expansion, or several other options (or a combination of them).
PS9 is choosing to plan on putting services in a hallway rather than repurposing an enrichment room (that other schools don’t have) or office space, or even storage areas, as so many other schools in the neighborhood have done.
This isn’t just “hard” for Center. It cuts out a primary aspect of the curriculum. The mixed grade community and the theater program are fundamental to the way Center runs, and have been for 40 years. It’s not a performance once a year, it’s classes and community building every single student has twice a week and it is absolutely central to the Center School program. It’s like suggesting a stage is just enrichment— at La Guardia. At Center theater arts may be more about social emotional learning and public speaking than building broadway stars, but it’s fundamental to the program.
PS9 will be fine for one year. Center isn’t refusing to move, it just wants to move somewhere that supports its curriculum.
Center School is a theater arts-based program. Just like Special Music School must keep pianos to function as Special Music School, Center School must keep an auditorium. No need to be flippant with respect to another school. Also, a simple google search shows the legal timeline to meet the class size law – no need to be misleading. PS 9 is under no legal obligation to meet 100% of the class size law cap before September 2028. Also, the law applies to the school system as a whole, not each school individually. The percentages apply to the number of classes across the city that are under the class size caps. Either you are misinformed due to a leadership failure at PS 9, or you are intentionally misleading.
“The law requires that by September 2028, 100% of New York City classrooms meet the new class size limits: a maximum of 20 students in kindergarten through 3rd grade, 23 in grades 4-8 and 25 in high school. The DOE was required to have 20% of classrooms in compliance the first year and an additional 20% each subsequent year. ” https://www.uft.org/news/news-stories/news-stories/schools-enact-class-size-plans
Why was a exemption not given?
Who is the teachers union representive of center, ps 9 and 191?
https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2025/11/18/nyc-officials-approve-thousands-of-exemptions-to-state-class-size-law/#:~:text=The%20exemptions%20were%20based%20on%20the%20following,up%20with%20a%20plan%20for%20our%20school&text=but%20then%20when%20they%20make%20larger%20decisions%2C,don't%20ask%20us%20anything%2C%22%20said%20the%20principal.
I’ve mostly commented on the DOE’s abysmal process here because I think if there were transparency and engagement, people may still not like the outcomes but at least the process would be defensible. But I see a number of comments that are dismissive or even derisive of Center School families’ emphasis on a proper stage and auditorium. I think that’s because people do not realize how integral theater and tech theater is to the entire curriculum and pedagogy of the school. Describing it as “a stage” or “two performances” really minimizes it. The school’s whole schedule and curriculum is built around all students having mixed-grade theater arts classes together multiple periods every week, as well as a theater tech program where students need to access the space throughout the school day. It is not ancillary or extra-curricular; it is woven into the entire approach of the school.
The comment section of WSR is not where anyone (or at least I) can do the program and its benefits justice, so I’ll just say that while the Center School educational model doesn’t appeal to everyone, it is hugely impactful for the middle schoolers who attend — and particularly for students who struggle socially/emotionally or otherwise feel isolated.
I know that not everyone will value that or think it is worth preserving, but I also hope people can recognize that Center families focused on the auditorium/stage are not asking for something frivolous. They are begging to maintain a central element of the school that has set it apart and made it successful all these years. (As an earlier commenter said – and it echoes what I keep hearing – families do not need anything fancy and will take “small rooms and not enough rooms and no frills” in order to prioritize what is most essential.) If the school won’t be able to maintain its unique curricular focus on theater arts and daily all-school mixed-grade interaction because the new facility cannot support that, then it really will be an entirely different school. Personally, I think that would be a real loss for D3, but I hope even those who disagree might try to understand why the parents want time (not indefinite – just one year) to try to find a site that can accommodate their program.
The school was told “ “ NO plans to move The Center School.” by Kamar Samuels in October. There has been no transparency and no consultation of the school community. Take a look at this video from October: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DT_iEJYEfLW/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I posted this once but I think it bears highlighting— Look at the description of the school on the “about” section of school website— it specifically references the theater program. https://thecenterschool.org/about/ The first page of the school website shows the school shirts with stage curtains. https://thecenterschool.org/
Even the one paragraph description of the school on myschools specifically references the theater program.
That is because the theater program is fundamental to Center’s learning strategy. Instead of dismissing parents, take a look at what they’re saying.
Without a visceral experience of Center it’s tricky to understand how integral the unique pedagogy of Center truly is, interwoven throughout the curricula. Without this knowledge it’s easy to dismiss what is actually at the core of Center’s identity, instruction, & ultimate success as frivolous. These space dependent losses would mean a diminution in education outcomes. Center isn’t asking of anyone what we’re unwilling to do ourselves. We all have a vested interest in process & the execution of that process. A lack of engagement for one serves as a harbinger for all.
The city is not doing enough to plan for overcrowding in high demand schools. Blindsiding one group of parents and using scare tactics on another group of parents is not appropriate. It’s sad to see parents pitted against each other in service of political agendas. Parents- come together to demand your elected officials and school system leaders propose a long term plan to protect your neighborhood public schools. Instead of strategically engaging all stakeholders to build a sustainable plan , they are dividing and conquering upper west side parents to move students and educators like chess pawns. Please wake up and jointly ask them what the plan is for your kids schools and future schools.
Amen to this. It is not us vs them. It’s about all our kids from 9 to 191 to Center. None of them are being treated fairly in this proposal.
Mindboggling the shortsightedness of PS9 parents that support ramming this through without more thought. Do they think there will still be plenty of strong middle school options in D3 for their kids in a few years if this is how its all handled? LOL. People saying there needs to be a district-wide plan are 100% correct. There are things in motion at ALL co-located D3 middle schools. Have you wondered why the complete radio silence from MSC, Lafayette, Community Action, West Prep, Computer School, Dual Language, etc etc etc.? Spoiler alert: It’s because school staff and parents are keeping their heads down and mouths shut so they don’t anger the DoE at the same time that they are trying to negotiate for their own survival, because (many, not all) DoE upper-ups are bullies and the Chancellor, who was D3 Superintendent until a minute ago, does NOT favor or believe in small middle schools or progressive schools. Maybe the new guy is different but he still answers to the Chancellor. So let the process barrel ahead like this without telling families about the big picture, and then fast-forward to when current PS9 kids (and all those at less advantaged elementaries) are applying: it will probably be Booker, one large consolidated MS in Joan of Ark complex, maybe (maybe!) one larger MS in the building along with Anderson, WESS, some shell-version of Center School down in the 191 building, Mott Hall II? Unlikely to have many real options for kids who do better in small progressive learning environments – I guess that’s where private school comes into the picture and lucky for the PS9 families who can afford it, but what about those who can’t?
Hold up, we love Booker T! Yes, it’s big but classroom size limit is now 23 so it feels “small” in a sense. A big school like Booker T also allows kids to find their “tribe” easier as there are so many clubs and sports. Conversely, going to a small school can make it difficult to find enough kids who share your same interest. It’s not progressive but there is Computer School for that. There are also other great middle school options in D3. Our district is very lucky. High school gets a lot trickier but for middle school, it’s fine.
Didnt mean any shade to Booker or any of the schools named!!! Frustration flared and I wrote quickly. Booker and big rigorous traditional schools are for sure great for many kids. The DoE under this Chancellor is angling to get rid of options for the other kids though. (I sent one of mine to Booker and was great, but would have been terrible for one of my others.) My post was that large traditional schools like Booker might become the only option because the good smaller progressive alternatives that your thinking of, including Computer, are in line to be consolidated, enlarged or moved without much thought to the kids who do better in them – unless parents from all the schools speak up to the DoE now to slow down the haphazard plan (or “plan”). I think families if they thought about it would want there to still be a choice of good schools in a range of sizes and learning styles 3-4 years from now and people aren’t paying attention to the Chancellors real goals and implications for all the smaller schools. Again no shade on Booker or other big schools – they’re just not the ones on the chopping block.