CITY LAYING GROUNDWORK FOR MAJOR UWS SCHOOL REZONING IN 2017 & 2018; IMPORTANT MEETINGS COMING UP

marielle anjula
Parent Marielle Anjula speaks at a previous UWS school zoning meeting. Photo by Jessica Brockington.

A rezoning of Upper West Side schools appears to be unlikely this year, but the city and school board’s zoning committee are laying the groundwork for big changes in the future, and want more parents to get involved. Board members will be reviewing preliminary plans at two upcoming meetings.

Here are times and locations of the meetings:

Monday, June 13 6:30-8:30 PM
PS452 Auditorium
100 West 77th Street

Monday, June 20 6:30-8:30 PM
PS191 Auditorium
210 West 61st Street

Public comments will be encouraged, Zoning Committee Chair Kim Watkins told us.

The potential changes they’re discussing are dramatic, and could result in zoning shifts as soon as 2017. The Department of Education began laying out potential changes to the district at a zoning committee meeting in May. We’ll write much more about this in the coming weeks, as it’s quite complicated, but some of the basic potential changes are outlined below, and in draft minutes from that May meeting attached here.

All these ideas are currently just being floated. There haven’t been votes (aside from the school board vote on moving 191, which still needs approval by another board). And this is still early days: during the last failed rezoning effort, parents complained that they only had weeks to see the full outline of potential changes.

The zoning process has been convoluted, and it often hasn’t been clear what exactly the city is trying to address: Overcrowding? Desegregation? School quality? All of the above? The upcoming meetings could help determine that and allow parents to get a head start on getting involved.

And yes, all of this is plenty confusing. Watkins told us the school board members themselves are confused.

NEWS, SCHOOLS | 65 comments | permalink
    1. Talia says:

      What about a plan to balance out segregated schools north of 86 street?

    2. Eddie says:

      I consider myself to be fairly well educated on this topic but I found those meeting minutes to be largely useless. I have no idea what is going on and I get the sense that the same holds for those in charge.

      I continue to believe that the first option for all families is for students to be able to go to the school that is closest to them, or not too much further away. Zones can be tweaked around the edges to avoid overcrowding. Extra spots can be filled by those in other zones who are willing to travel further. And let programs like G&T and MSC provide other options. Keep it simple.

    3. dannyboy says:

      “The zoning process has been convoluted, and it often hasn’t been clear what exactly the city is trying to address: Overcrowding? Desegregation? School quality?”

      It is a delicate balance between “All of the above”.

      Watch how the local zoning uses overcrowding to move newbies into existing segregation.

      Perhaps I’m being too cynical.We’ll see.

    4. lynn says:

      ‘PS 191, labeled as a “persistently dangerous school,” needs a fresh start in a new building, school board members believe.’

      Is the building itself dangerous or are they referring to the students? And if it’s the building, why are they proposing moving PS 452 into the same spot?

      • dannyboy says:

        It’s a Gimme’to the parents who’ll be sending their children to P.S. 191.

      • Annonymous says:

        Don’t send your kid then! Go to 87 or send your kid to a private school!

        • Anonymous says:

          if the school moves the current 452 kids won’t be able to just go to 87. they will be “zoned” for 452 even though they live no where near the school.

    5. UWS-er says:

      So kids who currently go to 452, who all live within a few blocks because it’s their zoned school, will suddenly be moved to a new school 16 blocks south. Makes sense. The DOE never fails to think of the stupidest possible solution to any problem.

      • Anon says:

        This time it isn’t the DOE’s stupid plan. The principal of PS 452 has proposed this. The 452 parents are mostly unhappy with this idea. Apparently the principal would like to make a name for himself and thinks that taking over the 191 school (but not the students) will do that.

      • Anonymous says:

        Send your kid to a private school or get rezoned to a school where you can walk or move! It’s really that simple mate!

        • Anonymous says:

          “Send your kid to a private school or get rezoned to a school where you can walk or move! It’s really that simple mate!”

          Are you serious??? You think it is that simple to just send kids to private school that costs $40,000+ a year or get rezoned?? The parents at 452 have been told that if the school moves and the DOE rezones, the current 452 children will be zoned for 452 even though they live in a different zone. End result, they will not be able to simply leave 452 and go to another public school.

          • Annonymous says:

            so go to the new location! what is the big deal? you cannot have your cake and eat it too!

    6. Marie says:

      It’s hard to believe that in 2016, with all the information and analysis we have available that there are still people who think they can successfully socially engineer populations to adopt certain attitudes and/or achieve outcomes that are what exactly? In 4 years I’ll have a son who will need an education. Currently we’re zoned for PS87, a school that as it stands today I am confident can safely and effectively educate him and one that me and my husband can be involved in and contribute to. I don’t care what color skin anyone in his classroom has or how much money they have in their bank accounts – my own family is very mixed racially and economically and we are wonderfully close – but what I care about is the behavior of his classmates at school and their motivation to learn and grow up to be good, contributing citizens. The last thing any parent who cares about their child’s future wants is for their kid to be harassed and bullied for academic ability and for a desire to learn and read or to have classmates encourage and display anti-social behavior. These schools all around us spend an enormous amount on each pupil (we can argue about how it’s allocated of course but the baseline funding is there) but no level of funding can take the place of a functional family or force parents and/or children to value education and responsible citizenship. If we end up zoned or assigned to a school where the children in my son’s classroom are not willing or able to complement and be an integral part of his education journey then we will pull him out and place him in a classroom (of whatever demographic makeup – don’t care if it’s 100% Japanese or Honduran or any other race/class) where academics and socialization is successfully happening.

    7. Janice says:

      Here’s the problem with all of this from an impartial observer. Why wasn’t all of this on the table when all the variances and building permits were issued for all the new construction in these school districts.. all the developers should have had to pay into a fund for the purpose of building and expanding schools to accommodate all the children being added. Why is there no real infrastructure analysis? Why are our trains as well as our schools going to be overwhelmed because of all the over building.. It’s not that any of us wants progress to stop, but we want to be able to have some relative quality of life..

      • Anon says:

        You’ve hit the problem on the head. Administration after administration have let development go unchecked without any forward thinking about infrastructure, including schools. In addition the DOE hasn’t reacted fast enough at all to tackle zoning issues and when they have tried they have gotten no where. And now, who suffers for all of this, the students.

    8. ronald M. hoffman says:

      The schools north of West 100 Street in the small area within the Upper West Side that is identified as ‘Manhattan Valley’ continues to be segregated due to socio-economic steering. The students and families of Manhattan Valley do not have the same advantages or opportunities in both the schools and within this community. An intentional effort to steer an unreasonable amount of ‘affordable’ housing with supportive services into one small compressed community offers little chance of success and hope for families and an entire group of people.

      The school board, Community Board 7 and our local politicians need to take a look at Manhattan Valley in order to develop a plan to create a socio-economic diverse community that does not intentional isolate an entire community from West 100 to West 110 Streets. Simple put, a policy of socio-economic steering is in a state inertia and it is difficult to stop. The result is clear….this policy has created a segregated community that is denied an enriching education that results in loss of opportunity to succeed. Upper West Siders are aware of this policy, however the residents south of West 100 are unwilling to reccognize that the enlcave of Manhattan Valley is a community-at-risk and is generally denied simple services, good schools as well as economic and education opportunities.

      • Jacqueline taylor says:

        As a parent from the public education wasteland you speak of, I couldn’t agree more. Our neighborhood is filled with a wonderful diverse group of children, but the schools do not reflect that. I was actually scared for my physical safety when I visited my son’s zoned kindergarten. Disgraceful.

      • Beth says:

        In my experience there isn’t much thought given to the schools in District 3 starting in the 90s and heading north. While in the southern part of District 3 (191, 199, 87, or 452) everything is debated and discussed to the Nth degree. Having gone to many of the zoning meetings in the fall, the message I take out of these meetings is that the children in the northern part of District 3, whether white or black, rich or poor, are not as important as those “precious” children living in the 199, 87, or 452 zones.

    9. Cecwakeup says:

      Dummies should have moved Anderson G&T to 191 building and expanded it to accommodate more G&T student. Those parents commute their kids distances already and can’t complain about proximity.

      • UWS-er says:

        Terrific idea. Which is why it didn’t occur to the DOE.

        • Anonymous says:

          It is a terrific idea – with one problem. Apparently, our forward thinking mayor is not a big proponent of G&T programs. He would rather have the G&T students attend regular public schools. I believe he is on record saying as much.

      • UWS parent says:

        How about the “dummies” leave Anderson alone–the school has already had to move its site in the last 10 years, and had to forfeit its own expansion because of PS 452. And by the way, the meeting is not being held in the “PS 452” auditorium, it belongs to The Anderson School, The Computer School, and PS 452–The Anderson School seems to put all the money into the school while 452 rides on its coat tails.

      • Bart says:

        How about the “dummies” leave Anderson alone–the school has already had to move its site in the last 10 years, and had to forfeit its own expansion because of PS 452. And by the way, the meeting is not being held in the “PS 452” auditorium, it belongs to The Anderson School, The Computer School, and PS 452–The Anderson School seems to put all the money into the school while 452 rides on its coat tails.

        • Anon says:

          Actually PS 452 raised more money at its annual auction this year that PS 87 and we don’t have anywhere near as many families and that money does go into the school, so let’s drop the 452 is riding the Anderson school coat tails nonsense. All of the schools in the O’Shea complex need to figure out how to make it work without relocating 452.

          • UWS parent says:

            What does PS 452 raising more money than PS 87 have to do with taking advantage of all of The Anderson School’s resources? Anderson had to stop expanding to accommodate 452, they already had to relocate, so how about 452 thanking it’s lucky stars that it exists, and that it has access to everything the parents of The Anderson school raises money for–especially the auditorium.

            • Anon says:

              Give me a break – the comment was made that 452 rides on Anderson’s coat tails which is absolutely not true. Don’t blame 452 for prohibiting Anderson’s growth – blame the DOE. 452 was put in that space and has done admirably with the resources that it has and after being an after thought for a few years the DOE gave the school its own zone which is what the parents are fighting for. And why should 452 “thank its lucky stars it exists”. Again, the school was created and has done everything it has been asked to do, plus some.

              You sound pretty obnoxious to make statements like that.

            • UWS-er says:

              Parents should thank their lucky stars that 452 exists? It exists because the imbeciles at the DOE weren’t able to foresee the horrific overcrowding at 87 and other neighborhood schools and had no choice but to create a new school. It’s not some miracle from above. Not sure why you’re trying to pit parents against parents. The DOE is making a mess of things. They’re the ones to be pissed off at.

      • J says:

        There’s just one issue with Anderson moving: The Principal of 452 is the one who raised his hand. He’s pushing for this move. The DOE can’t just turn to Anderson now and expect them to move because 452 wants their own building. (And the Computer School is in there too so that wouldn’t even be the case).
        But your idea about an Anderson move is 100% the one that makes the most sense. It’s a city-wide G&T school.

        • UWS parent says:

          The Anderson School has already moved once, forfeited its ability to expand because of the creation of 452 and has shared its space, resources (financial too), and deserves to stay in its building. If the DOE has been short sighted, and PS 452 needs more space, then it’s 452’s turn to move–PERIOD. And what the mayor’s views on G&T won’t matter for very much longer anyway…I can’t see him getting re-elected. Furthermore, I am not putting any parents from any school against anyone–I am simply presenting what is fair–The Anderson School has already been forced out of its building in recent years, and should not be made to again. The End.

    10. Anonymous says:

      452 needs its own space. The school needs to grow and expand and needs its own building. End of discussion. These parents who are making a racket are not educators and nor are they thinking of long term benefits to the school community. They are selfishly thinking about their own children short term. Are they planning to stay committed to the school forever and forever since they are so devoted to not move the school? Are they guaranteeing that they will not ever complain if they will have crowded classrooms and no activities? Are they committing to ever not moving while their kids are in school and continue to support the school? The school needs its own building and more facilities to educate our children.

      • UWS-er says:

        Thinking about your own children doesn’t make you selfish. It makes you a good parent.

      • Anonymous says:

        Why not move the other schools out of the building and give 452 the building they are currently in?
        I think it is a pretty bad generalization to say that the parents who don’t want 452 to move are being selfish because they are thinking about their children…isn’t that what parents are supposed to do?
        I think it is pretty fair for parents to ask that the DOE put forth a comprehensive zoning plan before there are any discussions of moving an entire school.

        • Anon says:

          The reason PS 452 might move is because their principal asked to. This is all his idea. The other O’Shea schools aren’t forcing 452 out. What purpose would that serve? The space so ‘t go empty and whoever uses it will want time in the auditorium and cafeteria so no benefit to Anderson or Computer School.

        • UWS Parent says:

          The Anderson School has already moved once from the PS 9 building where they happily resided for close to 20 years. They graciously relocated so PS 9 could expand, and have invested thousands of dollars in making that building their home. The Anderson School has paid through fundraisers, grants and donations for many upgrades to the building, including shared spaces like the auditorium. It has established itself in the building, and even had to stop increasing its grades from two to three classes a grade to accommodate the establishment of PS 452 in the building. The Anderson School has been incredibly diplomatic with regard to PS 452 and the computer school, and the last one in, should be the first one to go–if PS 452 needs more space, then it needs to find a new home. Period.

          • J says:

            I’m a future parent at 452 and I totally agree. (And I live on 77th and Bway so this move really concerns me).
            But they can’t make Anderson move again when the Principal of 452 is the one who asked for the move. I selfishly want 452 to stay, but making Anderson move is just plain wrong. That’s not how life works.

          • Michael M. says:

            Your information regarding PS9 is entirely incorrect. Anderson was historically a program within PS9 – The Sarah Anderson School and spun off in 2005. The space occupied by PS334 -Anderson is now occupied by Center School which was displaced by PS 199. PS9 now has the dubious honor of the longest waiting list in the district.

        • UWS parent says:

          June 11, 2016 at 4:40 pm
          The Anderson School has already moved once from the PS 9 building where they happily resided for close to 20 years. They graciously relocated so PS 9 could expand, and have invested thousands of dollars in making that building their home. The Anderson School has paid through fundraisers, grants and donations for many upgrades to the building, including shared spaces like the auditorium. It has established itself in the building, and even had to stop increasing its grades from two to three classes a grade to accommodate the establishment of PS 452 in the building. The Anderson School has been incredibly diplomatic with regard to PS 452 and the computer school, and the last one in, should be the first one to go–if PS 452 needs more space, then it needs to find a new home. Period.

          • anon says:

            then the DOE shouldn’t have given 452 its own zone, but it did. Now the parents are only asking for what they bargained for – a right to attend the school that their children are zoned for.

            To say “last one in, first one out”, is completely short sighted.

          • Anon says:

            Your comment comes across as pretty petty and less than empathetic.

            I am a parent of multiple children at PS 452. My family chose to move into the 452 zone and we firmly believe, that as such, our children should be entitled to go to their zoned school which is PS 452 on 77th Street – not PS 452 on 61st Street.

            There is something to be said about the argument being made that Anderson is a city-wide (therefore, not zoned) school and as such, the DOE should consider moving it elsewhere. However, I believe that given whatever promises were made to Anderson that they should not be required to move. PS 452 parents have been told that they are entitled to 5 more classes in the building currently being used by computer school. PS 452 should get those classrooms and expand as necessary (to the 3 sections for each grade that the DOE wants).

            I think that the 452 parents are very appreciative of what Anderson has done for the O’Shea campus and if your view of PS 452 is that of the general Anderson population, then that is shame – particularly since most of the families in that school don’t even live in this community.

            • UWS parent says:

              The Anderson School has already moved once, forfeited its ability to expand because of the creation of 452 and has shared its space, resources (financial too), and deserves to stay in its building. If the DOE has been short sighted, and PS 452 needs more space, then it’s 452’s turn to move–PERIOD. And what the mayor’s views on G&T won’t matter for very much longer anyway…I can’t see him getting re-elected. Furthermore, I am not putting any parents from any school against anyone–I am simply presenting what is fair–The Anderson School has already been forced out of its building in recent years, and should not be made to again. The End.

      • Anon says:

        Who are our children and where is this community? Is the long term plan to continue to have kids from the 70s west of Amsterdam to walk past ps 199 to get to the 191 building? It is nonsensical.

      • Anon says:

        Are you an educator at the school? Are you dedicated to stay committed to the school forever? Will you promise to be an administrator or teacher at the school forever? Pretty ridiculous questions for me to ask right? So are the questions you ask in your email.

        Many of us chose 452, fully aware of the space issues at the school. We know it is small and the faculty have to work really hard to adapt to the shared environment and I would venture to say that many of us opposed to the move don’t complain about our choice. And yes, this parent doesn’t and won’t complain, won’t move our children out of the school and will continue to give and support the school for as long as my children are there (and I have children that will be enrolled in the school once they are old enough).

    11. denaliboy says:

      All (actually not all) of us want our children in a nurturing environment where there is a social compact among students to value the importance of education. Clearly this exists in some schools; unfortunately, these are in the minority. Many students really couldn’t give a crap about learning and schools are more or less a holding tank until they age out of the system. Of course all of the above is a nice way of saying I don’t want my middle class/upper middle class child (primarily white/Asian) with poor children of color. That’s the bottom line. Yes, there are families of color that share these ‘positive’ values; however, reality is the vast majority of those sending their kids to learn and grow in a safe, non-bullying atmosphere are whites/Asians. Call me a racist or whatever, but I’ve been around this block for a hell of a long time and it is clear to anyone willing to see, that children of color are less committed to learning, are more aggressive and threatening. Not every child of color is a negative on the school, but the vast majority of those who are a negative influence in school are children of color. We all know this. Given that the system believes that taking a thug and placing him in my son’s class will help every student in that class I see limited positive outcomes for the system. Given the political reality the options are limited to those unable to drop $40K annually for a good private school.

      • dannyboy says:

        “I don’t want my middle class/upper middle class child (primarily white/Asian) with poor children of color.”

        Have you considered the schools in Asia?

    12. Jennifer says:

      All good comments. I agree w #6. As for #9, I agree and would add Computer School plus Anderson should both move. This would free up space for PS 452 to grow and ease the overcrowding of 87 and 199 plus the new buildings coming online. However the DOE “promised” Anderson a long term lease and apparently they will keep this particular promise.

      You’d think a promise was made to PS 452 families when PS452 became a zoned school, but apparently that’s not the case.

      • Beth says:

        PS 452 could expand in the PS 191 building.

        • Anon says:

          PS 452 doesn’t need to move to 191 to expand. The parents have been told that PS 452 has access to at least 5 additional classrooms in the O’Shea building. How about the principal at 452 take those classrooms has is entitled to and expand that way….just another silly thought.

    13. Andrew says:

      So disappointing the the DOE is again trying to up-end public school families. Zone lines shifting is one thing, uprooting an entire school out of its zone and FORCING the kids to go to school a mile away is quite another. Is that legal?

      I think commenter #6 makes a lot of sense. I also think commenter #9 makes sense but I would add, relocate both Anderson and Computer School (a District 3 middle school) to the M191 building. This would give PS452 room to grow. The W77th street area has a lot of new buildings coming on line, and 199 and 87 (maybe also 9) still have overcrowding issues that could be absorbed by PS452 in its current location without displacing the families that have committed to living in the PS452 zone.

      • UWS parent says:

        The Anderson School has already moved once from the PS 9 building where they happily resided for close to 20 years. They graciously relocated so PS 9 could expand, and have invested thousands of dollars in making that building their home. The Anderson School has paid through fundraisers, grants and donations for many upgrades to the building, including shared spaces like the auditorium. It has established itself in the building, and even had to stop increasing its grades from two to three classes a grade to accommodate the establishment of PS 452 in the building. The Anderson School has been incredibly diplomatic with regard to PS 452 and the computer school, and the last one in, should be the first one to go–if PS 452 needs more space, then it needs to find a new home. Period.

        • Michael M says:

          Please get your facts right. PS334 AKA Anderson did not exist until 2005. As a school, it is only 11 years old. Prior to that, it was a program in PS9. It was initially a K to 5 and later a K to 8 program.

    14. I bet you wish you would have just gotten a puppy now, huh???

      I guess it’s not that easy to have it all…this is still NYC after all. Those of you complaining might want to think about the burb’s. I hear Topeka is nice…Akron too.:)

      Monk
      Calhoun grad ’87

    15. Anon says:

      We all know how the DOE and city look at things so here is my take on what is going on in their minds.

      First, the DOE does not like to open new schools. Opening a new school is a very, expensive undertaking – salaries, supplies, etc. So, if they can be presented with any alternative to opening the new PS 342 they are going to listen. But, I think this is shortsighted. Look at all the high-rise buildings going up in the mid-60’s and 70’s. I think a new school is going to be necessary at some point – why not now. I believe the Catholic Archdiocese has closed some schools on the UWS. Perhaps the DOE should consider leasing these schools (what am I thinking, that would require spending money)

      Second, and related to the first point – P.S. 191, which is currently on the “dangerous schools list” needs a fresh start as one commentator pointed out. There is no better way to give them a fresh start then to move them to a new school with a zone that will include all of the new (and very expensive) apartments being built below 61st street. The “new PS 191” zone will include all of the families in these buildings.

      Third, PS 452 and its current families will be moved to the old 191 building, but it will have to grow. Where will the students come from to fill the empty spaces. The current 191 zone of course (also known as the Anderson Houses).

      Fourth, once the current 191 and 452 students move on to middle school what then? Well, if I were a betting man, I would wager that any rezoning will shape it so that at some point the new 191 will be populated by only those students that come from the brand spanking new buildings and the relocated 452 will become all of the students from the Anderson houses. My point, the DOE will put a band-aid on the problem but won’t do anything to create a long term solution.

      Fifth – It seems to me that lots of promises were made to different schools. Unless there are signed leases without any of these schools, then I think all solutions should be on the table. Seems odd to me that zoned schools are being considered for relocation before city wide schools are.

      Sixth – if this is about integration (which I believe it partly is), then all schools in District 3 should share in this noble cause. Should PS 452, because they are the smallest and newest school be forced to shoulder all of this on themselves. The school’s chancellor is on record as saying that integration that is forced upon parents will not work. For once, I think she is correct.

      Seventh – how can the DOE even consider moving any school without a master plan in place?? I think concrete plans for the entire district need to be mapped out and open discussions need to be had before anyone can really evaluate what on earth is going on. If the DOE doesn’t think out of the box here, then families will be having the very same discussions 5 years from now.

    16. Anon says:

      The idea of moving an entire school is nonsensical. It’s equally nonsensical that a Principal would choose to willingly alienate an entire parent community that he worked so hard to create. It seems likely that the PS452 principal was promised some kind of promotion by the DOE for doing this, in which case, he deserves to be fired, along with the rest of those corrupt “educators.”

      • Brandon says:

        I do believe it was the principal’s idea. I think if he can save/rehabilitate 191 it will help his career. Of course that will be relatively easy with the current 452 parents while moving the more problematic 191 kids across WEA.
        I also believe that the DOE thinks the parents in the shiny new highrises will be willing to send their kids to 191 if it is in a shiny new building. I’m more skeptical.

      • Jbs says:

        I agree with you, there is no other way to explain his actions. Plus he deliberately kept parents in the dark. PS 452 parents found out almost by accident (when Anderson put it in their PTA newsletter that “PS 452 has asked to relocate”), a full 4 months after the 452 principal first presented his idea to the DOE. It’s shameful and disgraceful.

      • Anonymous says:

        The idea that there’s some corruption or conspiracy behind this proposal seems hysterical. But I also think it’s unfair to imply that the local parents are automatically selfish or racist if they aren’t willing to suddenly commute their kids a mile away!

        The problem here is the DOE, desperately casting around for a solution to the ps 191 problem (declared a “dangerous school” last year by the state), which has seized on this silly idea without giving it any real thought, doing any real research, or (god forbid) really engaging the community.

    17. Cecwakeup says:

      Honestly. Moving Anderson is clearly the answer. They are a CITYWIDE school and as they have no obligation to any zoned children then moving them makes sense.

      452 has an obligation to its zoned children. It’s a nonsense to expect parents to cross the 199 zone to take their kids from home to school.

      The space left by the moving of Anderson solves the overcrowding issue too as the newly available capacity at 452 means that 199 can be rezoned and the excess shifter to 452.

      It’s by FAR the simpleast solution. I’m sorry if Anderson were promised a longer lease or if they have invested in infrastructure and I think they should be compensated for the inconvenience.

      And if the mayor doesn’t like G&T programs (as someone said above) surely he won’t mind “sticking it” to Andersen with this move.

      Move Andersen. Expand 452 in current location. It’s the only sane solution.

      • Anon says:

        Cecwakeup and others who have suggested moving Anderson, you are looking at this wrong. PS 452 isn’t moving because of overcrowding. As others have said they are entitled to more space in the O’Shea building. They are moving because their principal asked to move. If he hadn’t volunteered we wouldn’t be talking about changing anything in the O’Shea building.

      • UWS parent says:

        The Anderson School has already moved once, forfeited its ability to expand because of the creation of 452 and has shared its space, resources (financial too), and deserves to stay in its building. If the DOE has been short sighted, and PS 452 needs more space, then it’s 452’s turn to move–PERIOD. And what the mayor’s views on G&T won’t matter for very much longer anyway…I can’t see him getting re-elected. Furthermore, I am not putting any parents from any school against anyone–I am simply presenting what is fair–The Anderson School has already been forced out of its building in recent years, and should not be made to again. The End.

        • Eddie says:

          Congratulations to UWS Parent on mastering the art of copy and paste – I hope your kids love Anderson…

          I agree that Anderson is the most logical one to move. The point of the neighborhood school is to make it convenient for people who live nearby and have a sense of community. I know many families who have turned down G&T placements because they preferred to be at a neighborhood school so their kids could have friends who lived nearby (among other reasons).

          That being said, I am totally puzzled by why the principal of PS 452 wants to move the school. It makes absolutely no sense to me. It is not the end of the world for kids to travel that distance but it makes no sense. Moving the population of one school to another building, whether it is 452 or 191 will primarily serve to mask existing problems and not solve them.

          The bottom line is that PS 191 currently serves a much poorer demographic profile than the rest of the schools in the lower part of the zone. They are unfortunately the red-headed stepchild of the batch. These kids have to go somewhere. I’m not sure what the right answer is. They are as entitled as anyone else to a quality education. But the kids at all of the other schools are also entitled to that education and should not be shipped all over the UWS either.

        • Cecwakeup says:

          So – at the risk of more cut and paste – lets break this down…lets analyze UWS Parents entry..

          The Anderson School has already moved once,
          > Not in itself a reason not to move again. Corporations move, people move, why not a school?

          …forfeited its ability to expand because of the creation of 452
          > an expansion that would be facilitated a the move to the 191 campus. (supports my argument)

          …and has shared its space, resources (financial too), and deserves to stay in its building.
          > Appeal to emotion, not logic. unarguable. But “deserve” is a matter of perspective not fact.

          …If the DOE has been short sighted,
          > agree! and always

          …and PS 452 needs more space, then it’s 452’s turn to move–PERIOD.
          > This isnt how the grown-up world works. Moving isnt a toy that needs to be shared between children. The decision needs to be made based on the facts that present themselves. Do the 452 families who were originally on the 199 waitlist but accepted 425 “deserve” to move? is it their “turn” to move? considering they already forfeit their zoned school I don’t know how you can say those children deserve to move, or that its their “turn” to.

          …And what the mayor’s views on G&T won’t matter for very much longer anyway…I can’t see him getting re-elected.
          >irrelevant to the decision at hand.

          …Furthermore, I am not putting any parents from any school against anyone–I am simply presenting what is fair–
          > see above. This is not a squabble between your children. This is a matter of educational policy and resources. Everyone has a point of view. What you think is fair is different from what zoned 199, now 452 famiilies consider fair which is why you cant rely on a subjective notion of fairness here. Nothing about this is “fair” – is it “fair” that 452 children need to go 17 blocks to school? some would say no. But Anderson is UNZONED. those kids already commute so what difference?

          ..The Anderson School has already been forced out of its building in recent years, and should not be made to again.
          > Not exactly. Anderson chose to expand out of 9. Anderson made the choice to move. Anderson are hardly “victims” here.

          …The End.
          > I doubt it!

          • Peter B. says:

            Sour grapes. I heard the decision had already been made–nothing subjective about it. Adios!

    18. Diane Elkins says:

      We need a middle school at W 77 street. PS 87 could eliminate fifth grade and 87 would have more room for pre k. Fifth through eighth grade could then be housed at the w 77th school.

    19. Westside Family says:

      Why are the students and families that helped build 452 less than 5 years ago being asked to build another school yet again. The 452 community had nothing, but built something incredible for themselves and now bc the 199 community has refused once again to accept any rezoning that would integrate their zone with some of 191, the 452 community is being tasked with building another school. It’s unheard of for the same community to be asked to build not one but two schools in a 5 year period. there needs to be a comprehensive rezoning of the whole district and 199 needs to be part of the rezoninng.