By Gus Saltonstall
Tiffany Rodriguez’s family has been connected to P.S. 191 on the Upper West Side for more than a decade. She has a pair of kindergartners at the school, another in the sixth grade, and a fourth child who graduated and is currently at LaGuardia High School of Music and Art.
Rodriguez no longer knows, though, if her three younger children will make it to eighth grade graduation day at P.S. 191, otherwise known as The Riverside School for Makers and Artists, at 300 West 61st Street. Her uncertainty comes from a “potential proposal” to “truncate,” i.e., eliminate, the middle school grades of P.S. 191 that is currently under debate by the city’s Department of Education.
If the department’s “potential proposal’ were to become implemented, P.S. 191 would continue to serve grades 3-K through fifth, but its 127 middle school students and their families — the majority of whom are Latino — would be left to find new schools. And in their place at P.S. 191, some 250 middle school students would be relocated from the Center School at West 84th Street and Columbus Avenue.
“How can the only solution for our school be to truncate, which is a fancy word for kick out,” Rodriguez told West Side Rag in a phone interview. “It feels like a death.”
Representatives from the DOE previously explained that the possible Center School relocation and the truncation of the P.S. 191 middle school had to do with the New York State law to cap class sizes by the start of the 2028 school year, and the overcrowding going on at the Center School’s current building on West 84th Street, which it shares with the P.S. 9 elementary school.
“It’s a travesty,” Michael Robles, a middle school parent at P.S. 191, said to the Rag about the possible decision to eliminate the sixth through eighth grades. “Mine is a sixth grader. The sixth and seventh graders get the short end of the stick here because they are going to wind up losing their identity, losing their community in having to go somewhere else, and then having to start over again. I’m in a special situation because my kid is special needs.”
WSR reached out to the education department to ask for the rationale behind the possible dissolution of the current middle school at P.S. 191 and where its students likely would be relocated. The Rag also asked for DOE’s reaction to the comments of multiple parents, who alleged that grades had fallen at P.S. 191 in part because the school didn’t get adequate support after welcoming hundreds of new students during the 2023 migrant influx to New York City. According to parents, the school lacked additional Spanish-speaking teachers and a Dual Language Bilingual Education program to accommodate the new Spanish-speaking children.
A teacher who formerly worked at P.S. 191 for six years, and spoke to the Rag on the condition of anonymity, said they taught themselves Spanish in their personal time to interact with the new students.
“I had a full class of non-English speaking students, and I learned Spanish to teach them,” the teacher said. “Bringing in migrant students is not what equated to the demise of the middle school, but I think it was handled really poorly and a lot of teachers were left to figure it out on their own.”
In response to WSR’s questions, a DOE spokesperson referred to the same statement it gave when the Rag asked for a comment in our January 20th story on the Center School community pushing to remain in its current building, rather than moving to P.S. 191.
“Authentic community engagement is a cornerstone of any thriving school system, and we strive to provide all schools with facilities that best meet their needs,” according to the statement. “We convened working groups throughout District 3 beginning last school year to collectively identify those needs, and to develop potential solutions. While we have begun early conversations with families and school leaders about how best to support long-term planning, no formal proposal has been issued at this time. We will continue to consult closely with families, educators, and local partners.”
“I was upset,” Rodriguez said when she first found out about the possible elimination of the P.S. 191 middle school. “The fact that it’s the solution that the superintendent’s office has come up with, given that we’ve been asking for help for two to three years.”
The most recent call for help, said Rodriguez, came after the influx of new migrant students.
“We welcomed them,” she said. “They are part of our community now. That is who we are, we are a welcoming community. We’ve tried to figure it out to the best of our abilities, but when you don’t have provisions and planned strategy, the kids fall behind.”
Documented, a news organization reporting on New York City’s immigrant communities, found that Riverside School for Makers and Artists was among the most impacted schools in the five boroughs during the wave of students entering public schools in 2023 who did not speak English. The Upper West Side school was fourth among the city’s public schools in the growth of its English Language Learner (ELL) student population, according to Documented.
Rodriguez added that she was “extremely worried” about the possible need to search for a new school. “Our children are not academically competitive, so if you split them up, and send them to schools that are competitive academically, our children will fall further behind.”
Robles shared a similar sentiment.
“It looks like you’re just moving around a bunch of kids that were not performing, so they can be less of a problem somewhere else,” he told the Rag. “I’m terribly disappointed.”
The P.S. 191 community also created a petition to push back against the possible proposal to eliminate the middle school, titled “Save Riverside School for Makers and Artists Middle School,” which has been signed more than 870 times.
“We are active participants in our children’s lives just like the Center School community,” Robles said. “We are not just going to roll over and not speak up for our kids. To think otherwise would be a travesty.”
Read More:
- An UWS Middle School is Pushing Back Against Possible Relocation: ‘This School is Our Home’
- UWS Middle School Meets With DOE Reps To Discuss Possible Move: ‘We Want to be Heard’
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New administration – I think they are trying to “fix things” that aren’t broken.
Maybe these kids can transfer to a Gifted & Talented school? Oh wait, the mayor is shutting those down too because he thinks merit is racist, somehow. Whoops.
Or hide things. Fixing would be expensive.
I said it in the discussion about Center and will say it again. There is a shortage of space on the UWS for students who live on the UWS. Move Anderson. It is a really easy solution. Anderson is very desirable. People will travel to go to it. It does not need to be here. The space could be repurposed – move Center to that space (so they also get the auditorium they really want). Computer School in that building needs more space. Worst case, turn some of the classrooms into more pre-k space – it will be used. And let 191 keep its space.
Anderson is a sacred cow around here. Why? This is a no brainer.
And also, the change needs to be implemented by 2028. So take some time to figure this out intelligently and give people time to pivot as necessary and implement the changes in 2027. Why does it have to be done this fall with no notice?
Plus Anderson is a City-Wide school so prob has less students that live in the immediate area than any of the others and would be less impacted by the move.
I asked this before and was told there are a few reasons there’s opposition to this… Anderson gives priority to D3 students above 100th street and is heavily D3 families. They have the lowest funding per student in D3 and amongst the lowest in the city – $24k avg Anderson, $35k avg D3, $42k avg citywide. There is a strong desire to keep it in D3, I’m sure because of the reputation and prestige (the D3 superintendent oversees the school). I see how logically an Anderson move could make sense, but logistically it may be difficult. Let’s also not neglect the fact that majority of Anderson students reside in D3 and it would be a major disruption for the lives of many students and UWS community members. (I’m not an Anderson parent FWIW)
Completely incorrect. Anderson is a Citywide school. It draws kids from all over NYC. I am somewhat removed from the process but at a minimum, it has kids from all over Manhattan. But I think even other boroughs though I’m not sure. It does have a large UWS population but it is not a D3 school.
You could put Anderson on the northern tip of Manhattan and it would still be highly desirable. So why are we wasting prime, highly limited real estate on it?
And again, if this process was being done intelligently, being implemented in 2027 instead of this summer, the families currently at Anderson and/or considering it would have time to make an informed decision.
Also, if your funding numbers are correct, I can tell you why they are garbage. Anderson is a G&T school. So its special needs population is likely much lower (I know that needing services is not mutually exclusive from being gifted, but there is some relationship). So this drives down the cost per student. This has nothing to do with this decision so I don’t know why you mentioned it.
The NYCPS determines who is offered seats. Siblings of current students are given first priority in kindergarten – 3rd grade. In kindergarten there is also a priority for students in areas of northern Manhattan and the South Bronx. These parameters are determined every year by the NYCPS
Of course, D3 prevalence and northern Manhattan/south Bronx priority are not reasons the school couldn’t be moved— it could stay in D3 and move elsewhere in D3. It could move further north to offer easier travel from the Bronx.
Sure. I was just attempting to add some facts to the discussion.
We have been proposing the same solution, relocate citywide school Anderson, since 2016 when the city was proposing rezoning then. My child was at PS87 at the time which was going to be directly impacted by the then proposed moves. At that time the “”unofficial” reason we learned for Anderson’s “protected” status despite most kids being bussed from other districts anyways was the head or co-head of the PEP(24 member parent board for educational policy) had a child who attended Anderson. In fact, it was not a secret that the schools which the children of PEP members attended, were shielded from the reasoning proposals. (At that time Anderson & 199 were shielded from much of the heavy rezoning population)
The “gifted and talented” and wealthy P.S. 9 community could use the space they have a little better. Repurpose the giant admin space, principal office and photo copy room. Move out and expand their pre-k program in a different location. There are plenty other excellent kindergartens on the UWS. The DOE should give resources to support P.S. 191 and leave the theater kids of Center School where they are. The DOE needs to share resources and right now P.S.191 needs them more than a couple more spots for kids at P.S. 9.
Center school does not belong there. Those older kids can commute at this point. The uber wealthy center school parents just don’t want to drive their fancy cars every morning.
These comments from PS 9 parents are so unbelievably and obviously false and mean spirited. Center School is a lottery school that is more diverse than PS 9 in regards to race, faculty race, and economic need.
The district has already acknowledged the 191 building *cannot* support Center’s program. And all Center is asking for is long enough to find a space that can.
If the issue were one of wealthy people not wanting to travel I assume they’d pay for taxis. “They don’t want to drive their fancy cars”??? Where do you even dream this stuff up?
The equality person I responded to above quoted that ps9 parents are wealthy so I copied her. A typical center school grifter responds only to mine. Sad
There are no more spots at PS 9. It’s small class size LAW. What’s good for kids.
The law doesn’t require 100% compliance until September 2028 and exemptions do exist. And what’s good for 191 kids? PS 9 kids are not the only kids who matter in the city.
191 middle school has nothing to do with Ps 9 so please get your facts straight.
If you don’t even have 40% compliance now, there’s no way to hit 100 in a year. It’s math. Also, there’s no exemption. That was mentioned over and over.
Math is— if center is completely out of the building in September of 2027 rather than September of 2026, you’ll be just fine on hitting 100% by September of 2028, when it’s due. And tons of schools have gotten exemptions. There are temporary exemptions, for schools that will have more space soon but can’t that year. https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2025/11/18/nyc-officials-approve-thousands-of-exemptions-to-state-class-size-law/
See also https://www.uft.org/get-involved/uft-campaigns/reduce-class-sizes/class-size-faq
And meanwhile the whole class size argument is a little ridiculous in the case of PS 9 anyway, since the assistant teachers in every single classroom mean the student to teacher ratio is already low.
And this page is a comments page to an article *about 191*.
Here’s Smart Mom again with the self-serving misinformation. 100% compliance is NOT required in a year. It is required by Sept 2028. Of course, that correction *should* make it easy for Smart Mom to agree that this could be slowed down by a year, but watch for her next excuse for why it can’t.
And OF COURSE PS 191 has to do with PS 9 when the DOE is saying the Solution to giving PS9 the whole building (immediately!) is to shutter PS 191 and plop Center School into its place. Smart Mom just exemplifies exactly the insidious strategy of DOE keeping these proposals separate
The Center School people such as you who have decided to treat PS9 as the bad guy here are really sinking to new lows. Your tone is rude and obnoxious, particularly since PS9 is probably the biggest feeder to Center so you are offending a number of your peers.
A zoned school has a lot more right to this space than Center School and its precious theater program. There is currently one pre-k class at PS9 – it isn’t impacting this decision. Frankly, I would add more. Shrinking the office slightly will not change anything. The copy room is absolutely tiny. You sound sad and desperate.
How about moving Center to the Anderson space, as someone above suggested. Or a less popular, densely populated elementary school elsewhere in the zone (and most of these have theaters since that appears to be your primary litmus test).
Center parents are also spreading untrue rumors about PS9 having a huge percentage of out-of-zone students, and anything else that they think will help their cause. You’re not – you’re making it worse. And I say this as someone with many friends with kids who went to Center and/or are there now. The false propaganda from a small percentage of Center School advocates reminds me of Fox News.
You know, it’s really sad because Center tried not to blame parents at PS9, and a lot of us assumed this was just the city and a misunderstanding about what the law required and when. We actually thought 9 would be on board with us trying to brainstorm temporary solutions so we’d have time to find a place to move to. We know a lot of PS9 parents had no idea this was happening and aren’t in favor— we know PS9 parents.
But then you guys started going on and on about how this primary part of Center School, that every single student does multiple times a week, that is a core part of the school and always has been, is just a silly little theater program that no one should care about. You could have listened to us and asked why it’s so important to us, just as DOE could and should have. We could have explained that center is a theater arts school that uses the program for essential community building and social emotional education. We’ve said over and over that we’ll leave we just want to be able to continue our program.
But parents like you insist on yelling that Center School families, district 3 families, have no right to continuing their middle school with the formula that has made it work. You’re not interested in what the formula is if it means you can’t have everything you want RIGHT NOW.
We didn’t want to make you the bad guy. You made yourselves the bad guy by showing everyone how little you care about anyone’s program other than your own.
Center school parents care more about their commutes than special needs children at ps9. They want them in the hallways suffering so that they can sing their songs in their gradeless regressive experiment. We don’t want you here anymore you’ve used us enough.
PS9 has stated in public documents that its next step will be to repurpose art or music or the robotics lab. PS9 knows that it has plenty of other options than putting special needs students in hallways— it is simply choosing to disadvantage its special needs students first.
Center is asking for one year to find a school that works. We could team up to ask for one of the exemptions I outlined above. Any specials that move into classrooms would only have to do it for one year, if it was necessary at all. 9 could stop accepting out of zone students for one year.
But if Center gets kicked to a school with no stage its fundamental curriculum (that worked magic for my special needs child) will be altered permanently.
Towards the bottom of this page you state very clearly that you only think PS 9 students matter. PS9 “100% needs to come first” you state. Pretty clear you’re not bothering to look at the legitimate concerns for any children other than your own.
Correction, only PS9 kids matter….at PS9! Sorry not sorry.
You are 100 wrong in every word. Try looking at CEC meeting notes. 9 was attacked. And guess what. Using an auditorium 2 days vs 5? Come on. You don’t care what’s best for your Center kid, you care that you stay o. 84th and not love to 61. Be honest with yourself
My center kid excelled *because of Center’s amazing social emotional education that is hugely owing to the theater arts program.* Why would anyone be on here if they don’t care about their kid?
I think you should take a few deep breaths. This is getting ridiculous and you are not representing your community well.
Center school is asking for one year to find a place to move that can maintain its curriculum. In one year, PS9 only intends to increase enrollment by 15 students, even if Center moves. Oh look— there’s that pre-k, and/or even very few out of zone students. Again, the other elementaries in the neighborhood have moved their pre-ks, and stopped enrolling out of zone students.
I see your dismissal of Center’s theater program. Can I be as dismissive of your art room, music room, and robotics lab, all of which you seem to have prioritized over not only Center School but also your own students’ services?
Center’s “precious theater program” is a foundational part of its curriculum, and it can’t be done in classrooms (unlike, say, art). And center is asking for one single year to find a location where it can maintain its exceptionally successful program. Sure— we’d support moving to Anderson, where they have a stage, or 75 or 145 or *any place with a stage and the correct space for the program* how about supporting us in that request, or helping us find a place that works? Center gave up administrative offices and big lab rooms years ago, in the interest of compromise. It just wants to keep its foundational curriculum.
9 refuses to make a single compromise.
You are incorrect. There is no enrollment change. Where are you getting that info?
I agree 100% that they should wait a year. I am fully with you on that. I agree with the poster who says you should get the Anderson space and move Anderson elsewhere (as they are truly geographically agnostic). Please don’t get me wrong on that. Let’s work together on this rather than being enemies – you are initiating the nastiness towards 9.
PS9 is primarily doing this to comply with laws, not to grow. But I agree that I believe they have until 2028 to do so, so let’s take a little time to think it out – springing this on Center now is not fair. I’m with you.
So please chill. And stop hating on PS9. If there are PS9 families who are in a big rush, then I agree with you that they are in the wrong. But I think they are the exception, not the rule.
Carlos, I appreciate you saying this. Truly. Please look at what other PS9 parents are saying, though, here and in town hall meetings and behind closed doors, and how dismissive and insulting they are towards Center’s theater-centered curriculum, as well as towards the families at 191. If the PS9 families pushing to rush this are the minority, they are vocal and mobilized enough to drown out collaborative voices like yours. My family won’t even be directly affected by this but as someone with history in and connections to both schools, it’s been deeply sad to see PS9 admin and families (maybe the minority but the loudest ones) so callous towards Center’s and 191’s predicaments. Middle school students are old enough to see it all too – including the nasty comments that people post here – which is also awful. If you are right that most PS9 families are willing to wait a year to help the school that’s been its neighbor all this time, why aren’t more of them speaking up & pushing back on the claimed need for this to happen immediately? Can you encourage them to? It would mean so much if they would.
I’d be happy if we could get on board as one collaborative community, as we once were, to argue for a year for Center to find a place that works.
We should all be explaining to the district that they’re supposed to be listening to us about what our schools need to work, particularly for highly successful but unique programs like Center, and highly harmed schools like 191.
But it means PS9 parents have to stop completely dismissing the value of Center’s theater program, which is essential to Center’s curriculum. It’s hard to “chill” when you casually throw around that our program doesn’t matter. And please go back and check out these comments and the ones on the prior articles. No Center parent said they wanted to stay forever, just to find a space that works.
Multiple Center advocates are saying “why does 9 need pre-k? Why do they need classes for this? And that?” That sounds like they want to stay long term. And they are really stretching in their argument. If they clearly say “we need a year to figure it out but we recognize that we likely need to move at that point” then it would be a very different discussion.
But instead they are targeting 9. And I have heard few if any 9 parents say that this must be done this year. Just that it needs to be done sooner rather than later (I think most would be fine with next year).
My children attended 9 (no longer there so I have no dog in this fight). One of the things I loved about 9 is that they learned how to write clear theses with arguments that specifically defended their perspectives while acknowledging counter-arguments. I wish more commenters on WSR could do this as well as PS9 5th graders can!
But we have said over and over and over again that we only want one year. Actually look at these threads. I genuinely appreciate that your response is that one year is reasonable and we should work together on it, but the other 9 parents on here have continued to insist Center has no legitimate interests in this situation. Maybe if 9 doesn’t want harsh responses it could stop acting like our core programming is meaningless, like we “don’t care about” even our own children (as was thrown at “Center Mom” above)… do you see what’s being said on here?
Center parents aren’t saying “why do they need”, and they aren’t “targeting” 9. Center parents, responding to claims that PS 9 “needs” this space for services *immediately* (which has been the claim in meetings and comments pages and letters to parents), are pointing out that 9 has used space in ways other schools already have not been allowed to.
PS9 representatives have either been misled or outright lying about whether 9 is expanding enrollment, whether 9 takes out of zone students, whether 9 has other options than services in stairwells. What Center parents have been pointing out are facts (links are in this chain). So yes, in response to those incorrect or false claims Center parents point out that 9 has been allowed to give its space to out of zone students, to keep its pre-k, to have rooms and offices other schools don’t have, and yet 9 wants to frame the situation as if it has no other choices than to disadvantage its special needs students.
You have plenty of PS9 parents on here claiming they are the only parents with any right to this space, and speaking incredibly dismissively of Center’s core programming. How are Center parents supposed to respond? That is actually the heart of the program that we love, that has worked wonderfully for our children.
This is just ridiculous. There is zero truth here. PS 9 is actually the only school with a right since it’s a zoned school. PS 9 enrollment is not increasing. It’s been said over and over again. Truth and Laws matter
“Truth and laws matter”— the deadline for compliance is a year later than PS9 representatives keep saying, that’s a matter of public record. I encourage everyone to google it.
PS 9’s enrollment has been increasing— public record. Google it. NYC makes enrollment numbers publicly available.
Representatives of PS 9 who claim that it is the ONLY school that has any right to city space shows very clearly exactly how little care they have for any other students, even in its own district.
PS9 will be adding students. If all elementary schools have priority over a building because that building is a zoned school, what does this mean for middle schools that are district schools? If none of their spaces are “theirs” and can be taken at the drop of a dime? This is every elementary school students future. Where will ms students go to school if seats are being taken away over night? And where will 150 191 middle schoolers go next year for middle school if registration is closed? They will have very limited options by what has been presented thus far. Transparency and parent engagement is so important. Schools have been pitted against each other while leaders what them fight for scraps. We should be coming together.
Truth and Laws? Cool. The truthing and the lawing are not mathing. I guess by your truth, 191 has priority, too over their building too.
You are spreading lies. PS 9 enrollment is not increasing so don’t spread that lie. And 191 middle school is NOT a priority as NO Middle School is zoned. But good try. Only one school fighting and it’s not 9. Look around. So hmm my math is actually “mathing”
According to the NYS Department of Education your assertion that enrollment has not increased is incorrect. There were 465 students enrolled in ’22-’23 and there were 511 in ’24-’25.
Also, it looks like PS 9 has been taking a number of out of zone students each of the past few years.
and is sounds like you are fighting…..
Because 191 is district wide it’s ok to completely close its program and not worry about its kids? When will you start caring about any of the other kids in the district?
And honestly why do you lie about things you can google? As of 2pm today, PS 9’s own website brags that it “can often admit families off of the waitlist from the district, a larger area encompassing much of the Upper West Side.” https://www.ps9.org/ In other words it often takes out of zone students.
Ps 9 enrollment
2021-2022: 452 students. https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?year=2022&instid=800000047477
2022-2023: 465 students https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?year=2023&instid=800000047477
2023-2024 479 students https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?year=2024&instid=800000047477
2024-2025 511 students https://data.nysed.gov/profile.php?instid=800000047477
Didn’t this administration come in swearing it was going to listen to communities and invest in support for working people? Rather than just moving things around for numbers?
Sounds like a huge wave of upper west side school change is coming.
More schools might be closed, combined, and re-co-located. School communities that have worked hard to create a sense of belonging will be broken down and displaced. PS9 will be just fine, but what will happen to the others? Who will monitor and evaluate the impacts and outcomes of these actions?
Exactly right. In addition to PS 191, Community Action has a petition against its proposed closure and is open to relocating but apparently DOE isn’t listening – despite their phony “authentic engagement” messaging – and MSC too, not to mention total radio silence about Computer School and Dual-Language, which are also overcrowded. If the DOE is worried about family attrition, they cannot treat middle schools like this. Their process and their dishonesty about the process completely destroys trust in the system overall.
I graduated from M&A in 1973.
NOW I’m doing art commissions after years of being retired!
That’s when they were on 135th st & Convent Ave.
This elimination of small middle schools in District 3 is on going. The next school that is fighting to stay open is MS258 on 93rd Street. A school that has a large population of minorities and the only ACES class in this area. This school has been at this location for over 25 years. The District is not listening to parents or teachers to save this school.
The schools are way past trying to save. It’s about the students who the school is failing. Look at their scores.
Do those include the hundreds of migrant kids enrolled on the last couple of years? They will require extra support to get up to grade level at an English speaking school
It started way before the influx. Look at the data
Thank you for re-emphasizing that these students need more support in house. So why is a very successful elementary school the priority here…again? Make it made sense.
The elementary is the zoned school. End of debate.
Where can we see this data?
Google the school and the test scores
I wish you all the best of luck but if relocation is the end result be consoled that children are more adaptable than anxious parents think. Show your confidence in their ability to do well in the situation and they will pick up on it.
Maybe if the transfer is confirmed the kids can be counseled in a “how to introduce yourself” and how to react to snubs or new friendships. Issuing compliments to potential friends is always a positive to remember.
You are right. It’s not even about the kids anymore-it’s the spoiled parents. The kids education is top priority and both schools will lose if they stay co located
Kamar said himself in a meeting that he has his own reservations about the cap size mandate— we’ve all been getting emails about hiring teachers this week. It dillies the pool of qualified teachers. Would you rather have a dynamic teacher that has 27 students or one that is not inspiring or as qualified, teaching 18? I’d choose 27. We know this decision in particular isn’t coming from mandates
Once again “Smart Mom”, you disregard the kids at 191 even in an article that is specifically about them. It’s really telling & disgusting.
If your true sentiment is that the kids’ education is top priority, you would be throwing support behind slowing this down by a single year, so that Center can find a spot where it’s model of education can continue, PS 191 can propose options that support their kids rather than scattering them as through they are afterthoughts, Community Action and MSC can explore relocation rather than closure, and all the families at the schools and who applied to them while the DOE kept all this under wraps can have time and opportunity to make informed choices for their families. Instead you support rushing this, which benefits only one set of kids at the expense of al the education of all the others.
You think 191 parents are spoiled?
Oh no, I forgot, there’s only one school in this entire district whose situation registers to you at all— the one that has assistant teachers in every single classroom already and, at worst, might have to repurpose an art or music room for a whole year. Tell me again about spoiled parents. Tell us all again how PS 9 is the only school with rights, as you did above. Tell us again that 9 has every right to separate rooms for every single special but center has no right to maintain its actual curriculum.
And best of all, tell us again in response to an article about how the city has failed to support struggling students and teachers at 191 after an influx of 300 English language learners, and how the city is going to try to hide their failure by dispersing those students into other schools where they can be even more ignored, but data won’t pick up on it.
Please “smart mom”— tell us more about spoiled parents.
Spoiled parents for defending their own kids. I love that comment. Anon, I know exactly who you are. You’re making the same comments in every debate…..btw where did your kids go to elementary? I know. The building with only 1 school and asst teachers.
Who said 191 was spoiled?
You keep ignoring the fact that this whole article was about a number of schools, primarily 191, and absolutely not PS9 (and really not Center either). Yet PS9 is all you want to talk about— because you are so willfully blind to the idea that any other children matter.
About 25 years ago we tried to fight keeping PS 190 open but did not succeed. It was turned into a completely different school and remains there. I believe they changed name to 290. All of our students were dispersed throughout district. It was very sad. I hope you have better luck.
Anyone else remember when it was first proposed that Center be moved out of the PS199 building (its original home) TO PS 9, and the parents put up a huge fight, claiming it would ruin the school? And now they’re fighting to stay.
Center School was told it would never move again. A year later, in 2011, ps9 had already taken back space.
Center School is asking for transparency and time. Decisions have been made and dishonest boxes have been checked without the engagement of the parent body. As schools have uncovered this, they found that several other schools are in/ have been in a similar situation. All schools involved should have the same amount of engagement, empathy and transparency from leaders.
Yup. No one ever wants to move. It’s a hassle. But it’s what is best for the children. Not one person is saying this. WHAT IS BEST FOR KIDS
“What is best for kids” – Smart Mom, which kids? WHICH KIDS? This is an article about 191 and you still have zero regard or concern for what they’re saying. It’s so blatant and upsetting.
Meanwhile Center families are saying a move to that specific facility is NOT best for kids and just want to move someplace that has what their curriculum requires. You don’t care about that either. So again, which kids?
Did you read the article? the part where the 191 parents talk about how hard it will be for THEIR KIDS to move to a new school where the school isn’t set up for them, and where the kids aren’t set up for that school because the city is moving them instead of giving them the support they need to come up to speed? Have you ever considered how hard it will be for special needs kids to switch providers, long held relationships, to lose all their routines and have to confront an entirely new social situation?
What about those kids??? You’re dismissing them as a hassle, blatantly ignoring every single fact in front of you about anyone else’s situation because you don’t want to have to face any hassles for your own school and your own kids— even if only for one year.
Center School is not fighting to stay — and I know you know that, so I’m writing more to clarify for other people who may be misled by your comment. They are fighting to have a reasonable amount of time to find an alternative that can support the school’s foundational curriculum, as they did back then, not to be told in December that there isn’t an imminent move only to be told in January that the move (“unofficially”) will happen by this September and to a facility that, one, cannot maintain the most important elements of the school, and, two, already has another school there that doesn’t want to be kicked out to make space for Center.
I’ve worked at both Anderson and PS 191, including when 191 absorbed a large influx of newly arrived immigrant students. Teachers were translating lessons in real time and doing everything they could to support children, many living in shelters with non English speaking parents. PS 191 stepped up when others would not.
I’ve now worked in six District 3 schools, K–8, and one thing is clear: you need to spend at least three weeks inside a school to understand its culture and why it succeeds or struggles.
Exceptional schools are shaped by strong, present leadership. Anderson’s principal has built a collaborative culture where teachers feel supported and families are engaged. Stability and connection matter.
G&T or otherwise, school success begins at the top. When leaders are engaged and aligned with their communities, schools thrive. I’ve seen the difference firsthand.
A middle school with 127 students but has the capacity for over 400. There was so much space available that they put over 300 temporary migrant students there recently (while most other D3 schools had little or zero space). It’s obvious many families are avoiding this school. Who can blame them? The state test scores of their students are awful. This school is obviously failing their students and families – time to close it.
191 parents already got the raw end of this. Maybe those parents should have some say in what is best for them in fixing it. This administration specifically said it was going to listen to parent voices, rather than just deciding things by mayoral fiat.
Stop bringing what is happening at 191 middle school into what is going on in the PS 9 building. One has nothing to do with the other. It’s closing regardless
“It’s closing regardless” but DOE is trying to maintain the fiction that it’s just a discussion, no formal proposals much less decisions yet, and that they’re genuinely “authentically” listening to family and community input. Thanks, Smart Mom, for confirming from your privileged perch what we all have been saying about the DOE’s process and just how broken and dishonest it is.
Are you kidding. This was an article about 191. I know PS9 students are the only issue you care about but you might take two minutes to at least skim the actual article on the page. THERE ARE OTHER CHILDREN IN THIS CITY WHO MATTER, NOT JUST YOURS.
I thought WSR comments are supposed to avoid taking cheap shots? G&T programs are being eliminated for KG, which is common sense. This has nothing to do with middle school.
I think we need to say it like it is. It’s not about the children. It’s about adults who don’t want to commute, especially those with kids at both schools. The law is the law and PS9
1000% needs to come first. Move em out!
Here is another PS9 parent, so intent on loudly proclaiming that they are the only students who matter that they will come proclaim it even in articles that *are about 191*.
Let’s say it like it is— *working parents* (as are many at 191) have equity reasons not to want to add to their commute. Adding commute time can make school extremely difficult for people who have to get to work and can’t afford nannies. Those parents also matter.
Thank you for finally admitting what we all know. It’s only about the commute. You don’t care that special needs kids suffer as long as your precious commute is protected. Youre kids are in 6th-8th grade (oh right this regressive center place doesn’t even have grades) they can walk so that our young kids whose brains are still forming have the best care and education. How selfish.
Another loud & proud PS9 parent who can’t be bothered to care about the kids at PS 191, nor the special needs kids at Center for whom the curriculum is hugely successful, nor the high needs community at Community Action nor the kids with physical disabilities at MSC, who will all have to scramble on short notice because the DOE isn’t doing any of this through a transparent, coherent process that gives current families at those schools – and 5th grade families throughout D3 who will find out in a couple of months that they got spots at schools that will no longer exist – time to plan and make informed decisions. Literally all anyone is saying is slow it down by a year to come up with a sensible plan that preserves good middle school options for all the district kids, so your comments and those of Smart Mom don’t even make sense but sure do reveal a lot about PS 9’s values
This article is misleading. Center is not “pushing to remain in its current building”. We are pushing for the time to find a space that meets the needs of the school’s curriculum. Most of the parent community accept that it will need to move. There has been almost no community engagement from the DOE. And they have done almost nothing to understand the needs of this high-performing middle school (one of the very few on the UWS) and commit to find the right space. Moving to 191 is effectively gutting Center. With the disgraceful lack of high-performing Middle Schools, no district 3 member should be ok with this.
I am reading these comments with my jaw hanging open. The dang article is about PS 191 and these PS 9 parents are all in the comment section with their sharp elbows and bullhorns drowning out that issue and making it about themselves to make sure NOTHING slows down their getting their whole building while also yelling out the other side of their .. mouth… that PS 191 has nothing to do with them. It’s bananas!
How this is all going down will be a problem for the whole district that these PS9 families will come to regret themselves if they have kids who do better in smaller learning environments. And! Like someone else said, there’s no excuse for DoE timing it after middle school apps closed instead of working on it openly for changes in 2027 so applicants know that schools they’re applying to will even exist! I said it on the other article and will be clearer here that schools like Booker are great for lotsa kids, but they don’t work for all, and this chancellor – aided by bullying tunnel-vision parents – is ramming through closures and mergers of middle schools in a crazy way that will hurt the whole district. PS9 parents are being crazy short sighted here unless they all plan to go big or go private after elementary.
So it turns out that the (“unofficial”) proposal for PS 191 also includes moving PreK/3K sections from that building all the way to the new preK site at 1972 Broadway. I don’t know if that was added to the plan (also last minute, also. without telling families!) after this article was written or why it hasn’t been mentioned before. Why on earth would those be moved and the 191 families with kids in elementary school there further disadvantaged when there is space in the 191 building? This is all so ridiculous and inequitable, unjust, and nontransparent, from an administration that claims to be the opposite.
I’m sure Smart Mom and Eric Anderson will find a way to justify why it’s right to move PS191’s preK (as well as PS 87’s and PS 452’s) while saying it would be unfair and impossible for PS9 families to do the same, but really this whole DoE process seems to get grosser and shadier by the minute