UPDATE: Monday, December 8, at 10 a.m.: Disco darkness has descended on West 86th Street.
Following West Side Rag’s reporting on Friday about complaints related to a nonstop disco ball in the window of a building on West 86th Street, between West End and Riverside, the New York Post visited the Upper West Side building over the weekend and got in touch with the owner of the light.
The resident told the Post he had no idea his light, which was a holiday decoration, had caused any trouble. Upon hearing that it had, the man took down the glowing light, the New York Post reported.
You can read the full story — HERE.
By Gus Saltonstall
Disco appears to be alive and well on an Upper West Side block, but not all of the neighbors on the street are happy about it.
West Side Rag has received multiple complaints about a nonstop disco ball in the window of 345 West 86th Street, on the north side of the street between West End Avenue and Riverside Drive, that is casting a flashing light onto the apartments across the street.
“There is an apartment that recently put a flashing disco ball in its window and has it on 24 hours a day,” a tipster, who wanted to remain anonymous, wrote in an email to West Side Rag. “At night, the light flashes in the windows of all the apartments across the street all night and is extremely disruptive.”
“We have tried contacting the non-emergency police number, and they said there’s nothing they can do about it because no law is being broken,” the tipster continued. “The disco ball was on 24/7 for several days, roughly a year ago, in late December 2024, but then went off for many months until it came back on this week. Why does it need to be right near the window where it bothers hundreds of residents?”
WSR visited the block on Thursday afternoon and evening to see if we could spot the disco ball ourselves, which we did.
Neighbors say a nonstop disco ball in a window on West 86th Street is causing “extreme disruption” for residents across the block.
“We have tried contacting the non-emergency police number, and they said there’s nothing they can do about it because no law is being broken.” pic.twitter.com/ZTARnNuybu
— Gus Saltonstall (@GusSaltonstall) December 5, 2025
Earlier on Thursday, the Rag spoke to three doormen on the south side of West 86th Street, between West End and Riverside, and while two of them hadn’t noticed or heard about the disco ball across the street, the doorman at 334 West 86th Street, mentioned that a resident on one of the higher floors had complained recently about the light because he had “a child with special needs” who was bothered by the flashing.
The Rag also spoke to two building employees on Thursday at 345 West 86th Street, where the disco ball is located, but both said they hadn’t fielded any complaints about the flashing lights or even knew about the issue at all.
We will update this story if more is learned about the disco ball.
Subscribe to West Side Rag’s FREE email newsletter here. And you can Support the Rag here.
I don’t suppose any of the claimants have ever heard of shades, drapes or blinds.
So, you’re blaming the neighbors for the bad behavior. Not a question.
What bad behavior? It most likely only catches your eye at night time. Close your shades. Or do you not have shades because you never expected light polution while living in one of the biggest, busiest cities in the world??? Really???
You will still see a disco ball through shades and blinds. Sadly, if it’s directly in line with someone else’s window only a blackout shade would block it. Light pollution does exist in a big city of course. Manners are nice as well though, and it’s too bad that the owner of the disco ball doesn’t put up a blackout shade of their own and dance to their heart’s content.
It’s a bit more than simply catching an eye.
NYC is far from the biggest from one of the biggest cities in the world.
Heavy shades cost money and collect dust.
The police said he was not breaking any law. Apparently he is within his rights.
I’m NOT condoning what he does. But if I were bothered by it, I’d put a room darkening shade or shutter in my window. We can’t change the world. But we can change the way we interact with the world.
Did anyone talk to the person nicely? Maybe chipping in for a darkening shade would help if they accept that. Lights go on at night in the courtyard I face. I hate the lights. A disco ball is worse.
No, but there are rules against annoying one’s neighbors at 4AM.
And yes, the police can be called to enforce those rules.
Have ypu priced out the kind of shade you’re talking about? I did recently, and they are probitively expensive. The neighbors need to spot which window it is and then complain to the super for that building.
A blackout shade is prohibitively expensive? For somebody living on west 86th street? What? It’s just a black shade. They can be had for well under $50 on Amazon. What the HELL are you talking about?
So shades are too expensive? And how much do you pay to live in this City? you may be living above your means.
A roller shade is NOT very expensive. Many shops on the UWS sell them . Blind and Shade companies sell them but chain stores like 3 Day Blinds or The Shade Store (now 25% off) can cut them in store and install within 3 days. Select Blinds, NY Window Fashion on W. 72 St, Supreme Shade. I think there are even some hardware stores that can cut right on the spot.
SHUTTERS are expensive. But shades not really.
Roller shades let light though, around the edges.
Or disco guy could be respectful that millions of other people live here too. Should we also defend the person upstairs that tap dances from 3am – 5am?
It’s a guy?
Yes! I had that and the person agreed to do his ballet in the long carpeted hallway instead.
Noise complaints are legit legally.
345 w 86 is a mismanaged SRO. Enough said.
No, please. Say more. I’m intrigued.
I live around the corner from this building. A few years ago some plants I put in my tree-well started disappearing. I put up a camera and got video of the guy when he stole another. Saw him on the block one day walking his three little dogs. Followed him back to 345 and made him give the plants back.
Same person?
I see. A thief once lived in this building. Therefore…?
What exactly do you see? You are always jumping to defend offenders of any kind.
311 is a mostly useless number. 911 is on its way to becoming equally as useless.
Yes, This definitely warrentd 911!
Have you used it recently? Response has hugely improved, at least 10025 in the case of stuff they can observe on the street (such as guys who drag out a sidewalk speaker and blast music)
311 was a godsend! Heat problems and was so cold in my place. Repairs weren’t done often. Called regularly and they made visits to me and the building. They were fined! Often. Repairs done and they checked to be sure it was done.
The congresspersons office is on 87th and Columbus I think. They can help.
Actually, I’ve used 311 on several occasions and it HAS helped.
-A loose manhole cover that went gah-dunka-dunk every time a vehicle ran over it. Fixed. (Maybe it was also a hazard)
-A leaking hydrant. Fixed. (Apparently the fire department takes this seriously)
-Currently working on a noise complaint about an ongoing problem. Have had inspectors, not resolved but they ARE responding.
And re 911:
A car alarm sounded off and on for a whole weekend. I was away, but when I got home on Sunday my whole building was in an uproar. No one even called 911, figuring it was useless. But there’s an actual 911 car alarm reporting system. I called it and a patrol car came within minutes. They got the address off the plates, went to the location, roused the owner and he came and stopped the alarm! I stayed on the street and watched the whole thing.
There’s a lot wrong with this city, but writing off these systems wholesale is pointless. They’re not perfect, but they aren’t “useless.”
311 is great, as others have said here. They are polite and helpful and either follow through themselves or steer you to the appropriate department for assistance. Love 311. I think it was from Bloomberg? Very smart creation.
I’m just here to applaud your use of “gah-dunka-dunk” above! Very descriptive and I know exactly what that sounds like.
Curious about the 911 car alarm reporting system – they’re a major issue in my neighborhood. (I’ve used 311 to report helicopters that hover for hours and it has always proved useless.) So when you call 911 and they say “What’s your emergency?” what do you tell them? I’ve needed 911 for actual emergencies and I’d hate to use the system for something that isn’t necessarily an emergency. I’m not being snarky, I really would like to know how to report this because car alarms blare incessantly in my neighborhood and I’d love to know how to report them.
I don’t know what they say when you call, but that’s what you do: call 911. You can look on the 311 website and that’s exactly what it says to do.
I agree that this is annoying and would want something done about it but people can also put blinds on their windows to minimize the effect? Understood that one should not be forced to have their blinds closed at all times because of this, but at night when you are sleeping you can do that, at least for the short term.
They don’t work. The flashing penetrates. Why on earth should people have to go to the trouble and expense of buying black-out shades?!
That’s much easier said than done. Before moving to the UWS 16 years ago, I lived in Turtle Bay for about ten years. My studio had this beautiful ten-foot expanse of glass…that faced an office building across a very narrow alleyway. Whatever company had the space directly opposite me left their office lights on 24×7. I tried multiple solutions over the years I lived there. Blackout shades help, but there are unavoidable gaps around the edges. I could have purchased a (custom-made, extremely expensive) ten-foot wide blind to cover the entire window opening to minimize the gaps, but then I couldn’t use my window air conditioner. I ended up with blackout shades and then draperies on top of them that were custom-made to fit around the A/C unit. No one should have to jump through those hoops to deal with an entirely avoidable light source.
I could suggest moving to the country.
Similarly, I lived in a building whose bedroom overlooked the expansive terrace of a grand building across from the Museum of Natural History. The owner of that apartment installed brilliant lights that literally illuminated my bed in spite of conventional Venetian blinds. I sent a note to the building’s manager, who passed it on to the owner, who happened to be part of a well-known philanthropic family. Better yet, he was a good neighbor: the next day he phoned me to apologize, and promptly had the lights adjusted downward. Problem solved. Moral: don’t assume people will be unhelpful until you reach out to them.
We had the same issue with the installation of LED roof lights across the street which came on by themselves every time it got dark outside. Several of our neighbors asked the management of that building about it and although they didn’t remove the lights, they did do their best to point them down rather than sideways like they had been, and believe me we appreciated that they did it!
Please refrain from removing people’s right to moan about things they could actually fix themselves.
🙂
I am a pretty sensitive sleeper but you sound out of control. A little light peeking around the edges of blackout shades should not prevent you from sleeping. Also, perhaps if it was so bothersome you could have gone to that building and seen if they could do something about it – either turn off the lights or put some blinds on their own windows to mute the light?
This disco ball sounds really annoying. But the whining here is even more out of control. Welcome to the UWS.
I’m with you Carlos. All these liberals with their artisanal lattes and their over the counter omakases, Jean-George French laundry turn down service — can’t even deal with a little Disco Fever! I say we should all have our blinds pulled down on our windows 24/6 and on the 7th day we can rest — and rest easy ! — knowing that anyone who wants to be an inconsiderable a-hole gets the a-ok from the police department to do so.
Now, Let’s get serious here…why was Notre Dame replaced by Miami in the playoff? For Pete’s sake, ND was robbed! Alabama is in and they have a much worse record. SEC favoritism!
Disco “fever” is fine–at a disco. Everywhere else it is horribly intrusive. Why should anyone have to live in Siberia to escape wildly inconsiderate neighbors?
WTF does this have to do with “liberals with their artisanal lattes and their over the counter omakases, Jean-George French laundry turn down service ?”
More importantly, what is an “over the counter omakase”? Are there prescription strength omakase that are even better?
An example of all that is wrong with this country – turn anything and everything into a way to make fun of the people you don’t politically agree with. It is because of the latte sippin liberals that I stubbed my toe!
Lucky I don’t know that person with such unrelated bias. Wouldn’t want them as my neighbor.
You can still get light flashing through or on the blinds. What a freak this person is, I bet the neighbors have some nightmare stories to tell.
Contrary to what some other folks here are saying, I think the disco ball owner is not being a good neighbor and it is S/HE/THEY who need to put up heavy drapes.
You left out IT.
Why are we using this publication to amplify non-events?
Non events?? They significantly disturb the peace on a daily (nightly) basis and make countless good natured naighbors unhappy and rudely intruded upon. Does a bomb have to fall as the only “significant” kind of event?
Wake up .
It’s a neighborhood rag, get the point?
Everything is a non-event if it doesn’t directly concern you then. Unemployment is 0%, or 100%, depending on your personal status, and deserves no media coverage.
If it were a noise problem, we could talk about amplifying . But this is a visual problem – somebody on West 86th Street has no insight.
Or just doesn’t care.
Magnifying, maybe.
A little disco never hurt anybody
Fine, in proper and appropriate arenas. But it is horribly obtuse and inconsiderate to force neighbors living in their apartments or houses to put up with it.
Well apparently it has.
I concur times 100. Hence Studio 54….great memories.
Ppl need to enjoy life/light and focus on world hunger not a Disco Ball!
24/7 is not little. And it is not about disco, it is about flashing lights that are very annoying to say the least and can trigger seizures in some people.
The point of the OP is that neighbors are being hurt by light pollution. And it sounds as though it’s not “a little” …. the light flashes 24/7.
I’m not sure it did Bobby C much good.
Everyone get yourself a 10,000 lumen flashlight and aim it right at that window. Apparently it’s legal. Also contact building management and make a complaint to HPD and DOB.
People have actually done stuff like that in the old days of movies being shot on the streets below using those huge lights
This can’t help but remind me of an incident often attributed to Archimedes….
There are no housing or b building violations here.
The worst it is is light pollution having nothing to do with the ownership or management of the building.
Light pollution is a serious problem and flashing lights can cause seizures.
RIP Flaco. Birds are also disoriented by bright ceiling lights and non-essential up-lighting, especially on the roof. Please use shades and task lighting, especially during spring and fall migrations.
I’ve lived in the Dexter House at 345 W 86th Street for 45 years. Good luck with management. Long term tenants continue to suffer harassment from residents that have been placed here on a temporary basis after dire emergencies and traumatic circumstances, whose menacing and deliberate behaviors are weaponized to drive out or constructively evict other tenants. You get the sense that the management actively cheers the bad and unlawful behaviors of tenants placed here under lucrative city contracts or otherwise de-stabilized rents. (HPD is actively involved, so do they help or hurt us when it comes to seeking remedies for structural issues and other complaints?)
Please, neighbors, continue to support cooperative and law-abiding Dexter House tenants and help us to stop the unruly and deliberately unkind behaviors thrust upon us from revolving-door populations placed here by Red Cross and homeless services, most of whom don’t care to get involved (why would they if they are leaving in a few years?) or who are actively harassing their neighbors because of mental health issues.
Our building reception desk in the lobby is open around the clock and they will generally hear your concerns. Ask to forward in writing your complaints to the manager, Robert Goiccochia and owner, Jay Wartski. Your voices are powerful. Thank you.
If any of the complainants needs help putting up curtains or blinds, perhaps WSR can give them my email. Happy to help a neighbor!
Are you offering to pay for the window dressings??
Lol love it!
Why didn’t they simply walk across the street with a nice note delivered to the doorman who could give it to the resident?
Because that would require interacting with human beings instead of just acting like passive aggressive, bougie whiners.
You do realize that it’s the SRO formerly functioning as a hostel Dexter House?
So?
How is this is any different from living across the street from a suburban home with tons of Christmas lights?
It is different because Chrismas lights are temporary.
Some live in the City so they do not have to live across the street from a suburban home with tons of Christmas lights.
Typically, people don’t sleep in the front ground floor rooms of suburban homes.
Also, considerate neighbors with a Christmas light show turn it off at 11PM>
I don’t think it is – that would be really annoying too, especially if they flashed all the time.
Bravo 👏 well stated
Whatsupduck clearly didn’t Disco…
Oh I did! Get down, boogie oogie oogie!!
A disco ball is very different.
Eric Adams enjoying his last month in office…
Good one!
Since it is up every December, obviously it is a Christmas decoration.
And those complaining are part of the war on Xmas, call FoxNews and the NYPost.
There is a young lady nude in her window every day and I call 311 and nothing is ever done.
#1. What’s the problem? #2. Why are you looking? You don’t have to!
Are you looking to sublet?
😄👍
Maybe it’s someone who is really sick and the lights just make them happy.
Not unreasonable idea. However, the 24/7 aspect is concerning; there are less-intrusive forms of lights.
I concur. The little things in life that bring joy.
Typical “do nothing about a problem” behavior. What disco ball, indeed. Is that building a co-op or condo with a board?
This article should be titled “Panic at the Disco”
No. It should be called Panic at Home. Many many many people are made miserable by this stuff. MANY. Not grumps–just peaple trying to live in some sort of peace.
We have no idea how blue LED lights are disrupting our circadian rhythms. But we will, as more and more, we seek to explain cancer, especially for shift workers in hospitals, etc.
Kinda ridiculous you can’t do anything anymore in the safety of your own home. Too many Karens out there. People need to just mind their own business.
“People need to” realize that living in a community means you can’t just “do anything”. Mind your own business – the classic cover story for every selfish jerk ever…
Fair enough as long as your business doesn’t become my business. Why not just move the disco light away from the window? Presumably they aren’t watching it all night while it’s shining in neighbors’ bedrooms (and presumably it’s not in the apartment owner’s bedroom). Seems easy, neighbors don’t have to buy blackout curtains and owner gets to keep their disco ball too
Well stated. They need to get a joyful life.
Hello disco ball
Oh, what a problem to have! Oh, dear. Oh, my. Let’s hear it for uws privilege.
It should NOT be considered a “privilege” to expect good neighbors. Give me a break.
Privilege is very overused. Thoughtless neighbors is an issue for everyone.
😁 love it. There’s worse things happening in this world, a Disco light shouldn’t be the center of attention.
Of COURSE there are worse things in the world! But that does not justify selfish neighbors who prevent one from sleeping in relative peace at home. A well-rested person is far better equipped to fight for justice in the world at large.
Great response, Life-long! I agree. Sleep for healthy individuals is essential, and when one is chronically sleep challenged, or in the case of the original “dad” above, parenting a child with special needs, having the light intrusion is a glaringly disruptive to peaceful life!
I’ve tried to understand the huge lights contemporary buildings (typically post ‘80’s) often have atop their roofs. These glare into adjacent buildings in a similar fashions, but at least are not pulsating. These are NOT the lights for warning to aircraft…I even researched building codes, asked at my later building, as it had one that shone into the windows. of a hospital apartment building nearby (I stayed in that building, so experienced it personally) and learned in this case, it was there to illuminate the driveway 38 stories below, “for safety”. Seriously? And in doing so, shine into about 24 apartments a block away?
This is no different than any other holiday decoration that twinkles or blinks etc. Get over it, deal with it. It’s NYC. I have a neighbor who leaves their lights on all the time and it shines into one of our bedrooms very brightly, so what. it’s what it is. If you wanted absolute control, move upstate.
some guy plays his bassoon all day in my building, that’s much worse than this ball
Totally legal during daytime hours, sorry.
Ha ha! Is he at least talented?! Never mind. BOTH should be considered intrusive.
My building has quiet times – during the day, we have to accept that we live with other people. After 10 at night or before 7:00 am it’s not allowed. What does your building have in terms of rules like that?
those are not “building” specific, those are city noise ordinances.
No law is being broken BUT, this is a quality-of-life issue and those being affected do have some recourse. Your local precinct (20th? 24th?) has a Q-Team (Quality of Life Team) that was organized to address issues such as this. First make a 311 complaint, so there is a record of the issue. You might want to download the 311 app, so you will have it at your fingertips for chronic issues. The Q-teams monitor these 311 complaints and respond to them. If that fails, show up at your precinct’s monthly Community Council meeting and make your case in person. You will likely meet other residents with the same complaint!
Even on the Upper West Side, there is no shortage of idiots who don’t know how to live with other people. And you do have a right to NOT have curtains, shades, or blinds.
“Your local precinct (20th? 24th?) has a Q-Team (Quality of Life Team)” Can’t wait until Mamdani disbands these yahoos
How is this different from someone playing very loud music that can be heard for distance from the apartment playing it? There is a regulation related to protecting the right to peace and quiet of habitat. In my building, people are required to install rugs to muffle sounds of walking and cease loud banging such as kids jumping with pogo sticks (true).
Where do you live? I want to live there too!
In my building, we care about others who live here. It’s not just about me.
A few years ago The Art Hotel on 77th st installed a sign on its Broadway side which was lit up with rotating LED color bulbs which rotated. It stayed on all nite and produced a color lite show on our ceiling at nite. Fortunately as the bulbs burnt out they did not replace them and facing complaints they just took the dam thing down. Just another NYC experience.
It’s fascinating to me that 90% of comments of these types of articles insist that the reported problem is not really a problem and that a bunch of babies are overreacting. Note that these comments rarely have any firsthand knowledge of the reported problem, yet they are certain that it’s a nonissue — definitely not something they would be upset about if it affected them, or definitely something that has a simple and obvious solution for 100% of people. Just an observation.
Get black out curtains…. problem solved!!!
They are entitled to do whatever they want in their apartment. It’s not a crime!!!!
Manhattan is filled with noise and light through out the day.
Sure, *in* their apartment is fine. But this light is traveling *outside* of their apartment and disturbing others.
What about all the buildings that leave their lights on all night on 88 st.? Who can sleep?
Someone is anti Christmas.
I live across from a store that has a bright light on all the time. I have learned that there are laws/rules about noise in the city, but not much about light. It can be frustrating.
Legality is not the issue, it’s simply civility. Obviously the person that owns the flashing ball, either doesn’t care about bothering his neighbors, or worse, enjoys the “power” it gives him by bothering his neighbors. Usually a low-life loser who can only feel some “respect” when he harasses other people. When this guy’s identity is finally outed, you’ll immediately see what a loser he is.
Ok ok since no one else seems willing to do it, I’ll go knock on their door and ask him to chill with the disco ball ish.
Maybe they will invite me in for a beer and a couple of lines.
Lots of lights out of control on the Upper West side Beacon Theater Marque, Fairway on 74th Street side,
Asking everyone affected to buy and install blackout shades (which can be expensive and might also affect morning sunlight or views) is silly when it’s just one person who could easily move the disco ball out of the window or turn it off between certain hours. It’s not a necessary item, and it’s not like they’re watching it all night long while neighbors are bothered by the lights.
The reason there may be laws about such petty things, sadly, is that reading comments it seems many are the type to say “I’m entitled to do what I want in my home. Deal with it”. What if what you do in your home affects many others in their homes? I believe that if it’s an issue of one household causing a disturbance for many, and it’s a regular occurrence (not just a one time like a party), that individual should be the one asked to make minor accommodations.
I believe the disco ball owner probably just wanted to share a festive decoration and probably didn’t realize how unpleasant it was for their neighbors. I hope they can come to a peaceful resolution and still enjoy their decoration in their home, maybe in a less prominent location or with some blackout shades installed in their own apartment.
Has anyone tried…I don’t know…attempting to speak to the person about the issue? I’m not going to lie, I would find this annoying, but the person may be oblivious to the distress they are causing and might be persuaded to moderate their behavior. Just because you live in an SRO doesn’t mean you’re a subhuman, antisocial pig deaf to all reasonable pleas.
Shockingly (not) this is all it took to resolve the issue.
Turns out you were absolutely right Sarah. All it took was someone telling the “culprit” that they were disturbing others. Gnashing your teeth is rarely a solution.
It takes a certain type though.
Supposedly this is resolved, the person took the bulb down that was performing like a disco ball.
He said he didn’t realize what it was doing.
Yes, I saw this update on Facebook. The man bought the ornament for 99 cents because it made him happy. In this case, all that was needed for for someone to knock on his door and talk to him about it.
Glad to hear it. Human beings communicating civilly with each other are more likely to solve a problem than endless and ultimately useless kvetching.
Light pollution / light trespass is recognized by most courts. The tenant should be contacted by law enforcement and given the option of turning off the lights at night or putting up blackout curtains.
Unfortunately in a city full of lights it may be difficult to resolve leaving the complaining tenants with the responsibility to minimize the nuisance (i.e. blackout curtains or blinds).
Amazon has blackout curtains that are quite reasonable. Get the lined ones. They also keep the apt warmer in winter and cooler in summer. Security lights outside my bedroom made them a necessity
And the disco should put them up.
What does Gale Brewer say about this?
Unless 345 West 86th is the new home of Zawa Wawa, I don’t think she’s interested.
Is that a joke?
Thats hilarious. I might put up a disco ball too and leave the shades open.
A Flashing light into somebody’s apartment is not only annoying but can actually cause migraines or epileptic attacks in those afflicted.
Thank you! 🙏
The Disco Ball at Jake’s Dilemma is a keeper!
My living room and bedroom face the nightmare flashing digital marquee at the Beacon theater. It did not exist when I moved in. Any suggestions how to get a place like that to care about the impact on neighboring apartments?
Talk to the manager. Better yet, round up a bunch of your neighbors who are also being impacted and talk to the manager.
Best possible scenario: Beacon will do something to ameliorate the issue. Worst possible scenario: they do nothing, but you’re no worse off than you are now.
Everybody on 108th near Manhattan Av is now in their 7th straight night of 24/7 drilling up of the street by 8+ city construction vehicles, after big watermain break. Intermittent drilling vibrating all the apts, all times of day incl wee hours. Most here are families in affordable housing, we can’t afford to just get a hotel or leave. This seems worse than a flashing ball – we would be incredibly grateful if either WSR could report on this story or if anybody reading could comment any way for us to find out more info / possible timeline? (Workers don’t know, DEP has no public number, 311 just offers “file a noise complaint” – obvs no reason for any complaint here, just seeking any info of how long this may last). Parents, especially, are increasingly fraying and hopeless, w lack of info & lack of sleep
I don’t know if this is a case of “car stops making the noise when you get to the mechanic” but now that I posted, last night was notably less construction noise, incl no wee-hours drilling at all, for the first night since Wed the 3rd. So hopefully this is not an active story anymore! (unless the watermain break has any broader effects on the UWS, which I have no idea but DEP would)