By Gus Saltonstall
“We can’t make rent, so we window shop in the Upper West Side, oh my God, could you imagine that?”
A trained local eye will recognize the mistake instantly.
While it is an understandable mistake, Upper West Siders know that it is always “on the Upper West Side,” not “in the Upper West Side.” For many New Yorkers the on vs. in rule also holds true when talking about the Upper East Side and Long Island, among other places.
Kahan is a hugely popular singer and the song “Forever,” which the line features within, has over 78 million streams on Spotify. That’s 78 million times people have heard “in the Upper West Side.”
Helen Elizabeth pointed out the mistake Sunday on the social media platform X.
“ON the Upper West Side,” she wrote. “It should be ON the Upper West Side.”
A different user quickly responded, “Everyone has been talking about this guy, so I decided to listen to this song and nails on a chalkboard that line is, otherwise he’s got a pretty voice!”
“My brain is simply incapable of saying anything but ‘on the Upper West Side,'” Elizabeth added.
You can listen to the full song below.
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On the Upper West Side. In the Village. On the Bowery. In Chelsea. On. In. It’s all so petty and arbitrary. Let’s call the whole thing off.
Leave it where it is. Say, when do we eat?
“In” works without the “the”. Whoever started using “on the” deserves blame for improper usage.
The Upper West side is “the side” of Manhattan that’s on the Upper West quadrant. “The Lower East side” is “the side” that’s on the Lower East quadrant. I don’t think it’s wrong at all. (and what about “The Bronx” (or “da Bronx”)? Doesn’t sound right without the “the”. )
Then why isn’t Bronx County referred to as The Bronx County?
But the neighborhood is called *the* Upper West Side. People don’t just drop the
“the.” And plenty of expressions use the combination of “on the.” On the offchance. On the bright side. On the other hand. On the side of the road.
It’s not improper usage.
In the name of poetic license, leave the guy alone.
If something had been gained by the use of “in” instead or “on” (better rhyme, cadence, etc.), I’d probably agree with you, but (to my musically untrained ear, at least) that’s not the case here. It feels to me like he just isn’t familiar with how we say it here.
Lapidate him!
People who say “waiting on line” [when not referring to slow internet] really shouldn’t be nitpicking syntax.
Two clear, slightly distinct meanings:
“Are you on the ticket line yet?”
“Yes, I’m in line now”
“ What, where are you?”
“”waiting on line, in the theater lobby”
– Where are you in New York tomorrow?
– In the morning, I’m on the UWS of Manhattan. The rest of the time, I’ll be in Brooklyn, on the waterfront.
I started out in Sheepshead Bay but grew up in NJ. Then I wound up in Manhattan. When I mentioned to my mother that I had to “stand on line” somewhere, she said I’d become a New Yorker again. (Of course from Sheepshead Bay going to Manhattan was going to New York.)
Going to Manhattan is “going to the city”
As I remember people said both.
Window shopping where? The closed weed bodegas? Trader Joe’s? I think he means the Upper East Side.
Haha. that’s what I was thinking too!
Standing “on line” is a NYC localism and is perfectly fine. So is “on the Upper West Side” , etc.. There are actually many much localisms…chill, it’s ok. English does not have an official Academy regulating our expression. The songwriter isn’t a NYER, give him a break.
great observation! Looking for some logic here, it does make sense to me that we’re ON “the Upper West Side”, as it is shorthand for “the Upper West side of Manhattan.” I.e., it was a specification of an area first, and the neighborhood name likely came second. So UES, LES, and other directional names have “on”, unlike those neighborhoods that are not N,W,E, or S-directed (Chelsea, Harlem, Bloomingdale). This logic is a little shaky when it comes to the West Village (in), but maybe it is a subset of the Village (in).
Actually, ON the UWS is short for “on the Upper West Side of Manhattan Island.” Physical structures tend to use “on” (on CPW, on Staten Island, on the street where you live). But IN Brooklyn, in Hell’s Kitchen, in the United States, because those places are only lines on a map that we’ve assigned names to, not actual observable things. You can’t SEE the border between Brooklyn and Queens unless you’re looking at a map. You CAN see Manhattan Island if you’re standing ON one of the edges.
I live On The Upper West Side. Always have. and I stand ON line. Always have. That’s just the way it is. Leave us New Yawkers alone.
Kind of poetic though… because they don’t belong shopping there as they can’t afford it, so not knowing the difference or just purposefully making the mistake between the “on” and “in” makes it tie together that they are outsiders to the area.
wow, that’s snide
If I can’t afford Tiffany’s, I should’t be browsing; I don’t “belong” there.
The way the American version of the English language patterns is to use the prepositions “in” “on” and “at” in a predictable manner. We generally use “in” for large or relatively large, geographic areas: I live in the United States, in New York, in Manhattan, in the Village; we use “on”, for closer-focused areas: I live on West End Avenue; on the Upper West Side; on tenth street, on Bleeker Street; we use “at” when denoting a specific address or location: I’ll meet you at Macy’s, I live at 165 West 103rd Street; I live at Ten Amsterdam Avenue. These are the patterns of English that all learners of English as a New Language (ENL) are taught, and as I myself taught for years.
Ironically, we say ON with planetary bodies, which, of course, are the largest geographic areas one can imagine. (M.A., Linguistics).
Nothing less than an out-and-out SHANDA!
“Down the shore” is a far more accurate indicator of whether one is a local or not.
Maybe he did it “on” purpose— great publicity! 😊
As I read the quoted lyric I had a big AHA moment coming upon the words ‘window shopping’ before even noticing the ‘in.’ Window-shopping? In the spirit of the community, I will lament something long gone: the fresh-fish instillations in Citarella’s windows that disappeared over a decade ago. And now, also in the spirit of the community and to spread some hope for the future, I will find something to praise: the Barbie displays in the window of Apthorp Cleaners, although I can’t exactly shop there. The ‘window-display’ part of the sentence broke me before I even made it to the next preposition.
It reminds me of Winston Churchill’s response to criticism of ending a sentence with a preposition.
“This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put” he replied.
Also, who window shops on the UWS?
Lots of us!
It’s complicated, but should‘ t be for native English speakers. I recall a lively conversation with an Israeli colleague.. He proclaimed that English prepositions were the most difficult part of the language. Examples used: dwell on it or dwell over it? Do I sleep on, sleep over, sleep with, sleep on it, sleep at it., sleep to,. You may try them all and see what happens. In this case there is no doubt in my mind that I live on the Upper West Side, in the borough of Manhattan. Should I ever elect to move to Brooklyn I would live in Brooklyn. I used to live in Queens, in Elmhurst, on 56th Ave. I was born in the Bronx. Staten Island is beyond my purview.
It’s ON Staten Island.
In, on, or without the “the”. Doesn’t matter as half the shops UWS are empty and locked up . No fun there.
Noah Kahn is from Vermont (Vah-mahnt).
Anyone parsing his lyric referencing our neighborhood should try pronouncing his home-state towns correctly: Barre, Calais, Montpelier, Vergennes…
ON the Upper West Side. IN the Village. I don’t know why it is ON Long Island but IN Manhattan.
It’s IN Manhattan, but ON Manhattan island. An island is a actual geographical structure that existed before humans assigned a name to it, but the name “Manhattan,” by itself, is a human-made concept. We say ON Staten Island, but IN Richmond (County).
Manhattan is a city. Other examples –
in Paris, on the Left Bank (of the Seine);
In Manhattan, on the UWS (of the island).
On the Island, in (the town of ) Massapequa.
Manhattan is a BOROUGH
Of course you are correct! Borough and Island. I was trying to answer the question of why on Long Island but In Manhattan – and I chose a poor first sentence for sure. I think of Long Island as a large Island with many kinds of villages, towns, boroughs counties etc. Manhattan seems (while infinitely various) more generally citified. A part of a large city. With sub parts – upper, lower, etc. Hence the prepositional examples I gave. I should have added, ON the North Fork of Long Island, in Southold.
While we’re at it, would someone explain why “we” stopped saying “the Ukraine.”
Very easy to Google. https://time.com/12597/the-ukraine-or-ukraine/
When addressing a letter, if anyone does that anymore, one writes the destination as “Bronx, NY” not “The (Da) Bronx, NY.”
A bit more off topic: the Bronck House is a fun visit. They told us the Bronck family were the ones after whom the Bronx is named. The docent followed us closely to make sure we didn’t nick anything.
This is officially the most senseless nitpicking I’ve ever encountered.
Lol. Great song and lovely voice. But yeah, the ‘in’ was pretty grating. Sorry Noah!
In NYC — standing in line or standing on line? I believe it’s “on” line
If there’s a ribbon of color painted on the sidewalk and your feet are upon it, you’re standing on line. If you’re in a row of people waiting to buy breakfast at a busy coffee wagon, you’re in line. Simple. (But I grew up Elsewhere, in a city where sidewalks are called ‘payments,’ so what do I know?)
I had the impression he is window shopping outside real estate broker offices, a kind of property porn, as many on UWS have done.
Disagree. Nobody lives on a place, any more than they wait “on” line. That’s called a poor internet connection. You also don’t sit “on” a cafe waiting for your coffee while you overhear someone “beg a question” that they are trying to raise. I do realize people used to make the “on ” mistake a lot, but they all grew up “on” Long Island and have since moved to Florida, where they live *on* a beach waiting to live *in* the rising ocean.
while i enjoy delving into arbitrary arguments around regional slang, zooming out a bit one realizes correct grammar in the english language is an illusion, if anything the language is marked by a striking absence of logical grammars (im sure they could be computationally proven but you get what im saying)
Okay but let’s just say he did this on purpose. I have no idea if he did but let’s just say he did. Saying it wrong would hammer in the point that they don’t belong there, which follows the point of not being able to make rent.
Further proof he’s actually a genius
He’s not writing about New York tho?? lol
It’s fine.
Manhattan is an island. The UWS is part of the island of Manhattan. One is on an island,,not in an island. Therefore, one is on the upper west side of said island, not in it.
The way I see it, you live on a piece of land (geographical boundaries) and you live in a neighborhood (political boundaries).