By Daniel Krieger
After the collapse of an old horse named Ryder in Midtown in August, a poll by The Animal Legal Defense Fund and Voters for Animal Rights showed that 71% of New York City voters support a ban on horse-drawn carriages. The New York Times reported that Ryder’s collapse “reignited calls from residents, celebrities and politicians to ban the horse-drawn carriage industry, which has existed in New York City for more than 150 years.” Prior to that, this past summer, the City Council introduced a bill that would use horseless electric carriages to take the place of horse-drawn carriages. This has been an ongoing issue for years, and former Mayor Bill de Blasio was unable to deliver on his promise to ban them. Both sides have loudly voiced their views, including Liam Neeson, who recently came out against the electric carriage bill, while NYCLASS strongly opposes horse carriages and lobbies against them. For this next edition of Asking Upper West Siders, WSR got locals to weigh in.
What do you think about horse-drawn carriages?
Jace
Age: 19
Occupation: student
Time on the Upper West Side: 1.5 years
“I’m personally not a big fan. I think they’re unnecessary. And I don’t think that the horses seem very happy. It rubs me the wrong way. It doesn’t seem right in the city. I feel bad for the horses. Which is strange because I come from a family of cattle ranchers. I’m from Texas, so I’m not really one to judge when it comes to animals laboring. I didn’t grow up on a farm, that wasn’t my upbringing, but still. The horses just seem so out of place here. It’s like a circus exhibit. It makes me sad. I don’t feel like this is where they belong.”
Tamara
Age: 64
Occupation: insurance broker
Time on the Upper West Side: 60 years
“I’m conflicted because I think that the way the horses are treated is awful. And I think that having them on city streets is not good. But I also think that it is part of New York to have them in Central Park and for people to be able to have those rides. We’re losing so much of the fabric of those kinds of old-fashioned things in the city, so I would like to see them stay, but in the right way. I wouldn’t ban them if we could properly take care of the horses. It needs regulation and care. And rather than have them stand on Central Park South it seems like we have a gorgeous park and not all of it uptown is probably used as much. If there was a way to build an accommodation for them there, wouldn’t that be nice?”
Jackie
Age: 28
Occupation: tech startup
Time on the Upper West Side: 6 years
“I feel like the horses should not be here. I was recently reading a New York Times article about a horse that collapsed. As a local, I would never go riding on one of those carriages. It’s more of a visiting-New-York thing to do, so I’m not that invested in having it as a service. Plus the horse poop stinks. It’s in the crosswalk here in the park, and my dog likes to eat it. So I have a slight preference toward not having them. But to say the horses are treated poorly is probably an exaggeration. I was reading about the people who take care of them and they said, ‘We love them. These are our animals. Of course we take care of them.’ So I feel that the conditions aren’t that much of an issue. A lot of people make judgments without really knowing what it’s like to actually have a horse in New York City. They are cared for and it’s a very regulated industry.”
Donald
Age: 78
Occupation: entrepreneur
Time on the Upper West Side: 25 years
“Get rid of the guns, but keep the horses! Horses are such beautiful animals. They are kind. Even their poop doesn’t stink so bad. I love seeing them in the neighborhood. What I’m upset about is all the pedicabs all over the place, and I think they charge more than the horse carriages. I’ve lived in New York for over 50 years, and I’ve been on a carriage a couple of times. It was something for my wife or something like that. One of the things I did with my kids when they were small was go down at night to feed the horses carrots and apples. It was an event for us. I knew all the drivers. They all knew me and my kids. This is personal for me. But in 90° heat the horses should not be out, like that poor horse that collapsed on 9th Avenue this summer. There should be a law about that. Horses are good for our spirit. Do not get rid of my horses. You can get rid of my mayor, but not my horses!”
James
Age: 26
Occupation: finance
Time on the Upper West Side: 5 months
“Sure, New York has a lot of traditions, but whenever I see a horse here it feels like New York City is the last place a horse should be. I do see a lot of tourists enjoying the ride through the park, and there seems to be a lot of benefit from that. But it’s nothing for the locals. And I see a lot of these pedicabs rolling through the park and that seems just as enjoyable as a horse-drawn carriage. I’m sure I’m missing some pieces, and I’m sure there are some interesting arguments to be made about why to keep this tradition alive and what it means to the city that I’m just not aware of. But it’s come to a point where there are some real negative consequences that have come to light. And if the public can see these negative consequences and understand what happens to these horses, it’s not something that the city would really miss if they were to do away with them.”
Having horses in servitude in 2022 is appalling. To do it for our amusement is an even lower level of human depravity. Ever see these “caretakers” whip their horse when it refuses to move? Imagine how the horses are treated when away from the public eye! How this is not only tolerated, but encouraged by my Manhattan neighbors for “Central Park nostalgia / romance” is simply awful.
I agree
I couldn’t agree more, it’s completely inhumane and everytime I walk past them on my way home from work it just makes me so sad and infuriated . how do we get them banned!! There must be a lot of money/ power behind the scene or else they would have been banned years ago. They recently banned it in Boston, didn’t they??
I agree. SAD is the overwhelming feeling. It’s shameful
If we have no horses in servitude will there be any horses at all? There are a few wild ones on the Outer Banks but other than that aren’t they all serving humans in sport or some working in small farms?
Sandy, YES, yes they are. ALL horses cared for by humans are for human amusement or work purpose. Being and NYC carriage horse would be dream come true for any race horse. The treatment, medical manipulation and corruption in the racing industry is FAR worse than a jaunt around the park.
Agree totally. To excuse the exploitation of these noble animals with rationale such as maintaining “Central Park nostalgia” or “romance” means that people have no moral compass. The fact that this is even an issue in 2022 is beyond sad. It is depraved.
It’s inhumane, out of place in 2022 , and unsanitary. Even if the horses were treated like royalty — which they certainly are not — it would be unacceptable because there is literally horse s**t all over Central Park. It’s smelly and disgusting . Get the carriage drivers ornate electric powered buggies. There are charging stations inside the park near the area where the horses wait for customers. It just makes sense.
Thank you
The horse poop is collected in a strategically located contraption. The little bit that finds its way onto the streets is cleaned up regularly by people employed by the horse owners.
“Little bit”?? It’s everywhere, and it’s disgusting.
If all dog-owners left piles of rotting feces in the road each summer, you can bet that dogs would be banished from the Park without a second thought.
Last summer, I saw a troupe of kindergarteners trying to cross the Park’s internal roadway without stepping in horse poop. Few could.
Replace them all with these ASAP: https://yucatanmagazine.com/new-electric-horse-power-free-carriages-to-become-a-reality-in-merida/
The horses deserve a better life.
Bravo!
It’s disingenuous to say that the horses “deserve a better life.” Without a job to do, there wouldn’t be horses enjoying that better life. Which of us is in a position to support a horse hanging about on a farm all year (roughly $5,000 a year for feed and basic vet care)?
Make that at least 12k a month in upkeep for a basic horse out in a field
Well, eventually they will die, but they don’t have to have a miserable city existence meanwhile. How many horses are we talking about? They deserve a “pension” more than some corporate sorts.
They deserve to live a life filled with love, respect and honor. They have earned that
The horses will be on the truck to slaughter in Canada and Mexico. That’s your ‘better life.’
Sadly that is correct
Instead of replacing the horses with fully electric carriages, maybe a hybrid solution could allow electric assist from the carriage as the horse pulls. The burden could probably be brought down so much that it’s just a pleasant walk for the horse, while keeping the experience the same for everyone else. We see self-balancing electric transportation devices all over the city these days, and this must be an easier challenge.
DeBlasio said he would ban these when he was running for Mayor. Of course he backtraced on Day 1 when Liam Nissan of all people came out in favor. Why limit the abuse to horses? Why not put other animals into the tourist trade? A rat ride anyone??/
Actually, he tried to get them banned a couple of times and always somehow got outvoted. I’m not his biggest fan, but I do recall his trying to do this. He just finally gave up after a time when it seemed like a lost cause. I have always supported getting rid of them. While they are lovely, they do not seem particularly happy or well-treated and I absolutely feel they should NOT be on city streets! If they could be housed within Central Park and only allowed to give tours within the park, perhaps I might reconsider my position. But if things continue as they are now, I will always vote/lobby for them being retired. The horse drivers always clamor that the only thing they can do with their horses is to sell them for slaughter. Does that sound like they love their horses as they claim to? Absolutely not!
Thank you for saying the truth. The poor horses are need to be retired. They have been working their whole life pulling plows sun up sun down 10 hours a day to pulling thousands of pounds of a carriage filled up to 5 people inside on the hot or frozen streets of NYC.
Never to be turned out to grassy fields with their friends. They are returned to small, cramped dark stalls on the west side that were old walkups.
De Blasio was 100% disingenuous, and that’s the nice way of saying that he lied. He had no intention of trying.
Disney would sue.
Seriously, these horses seem to be very poorly treated. It’s time to end this practice.
Use Tesla robot horses. The tourists will eat it up, and some won’t know the difference.
Seriously, Bethesda Terrace in Summer? The stench of horse urine is fatal. One of the worst smells in all of NYC.
I completely agree with this comment. Regardless of whether it’s horse urine or poop, the entire bottom third of the park reeks of it throughout the summer. Time to let this tradition go.
And while we’re on the topic of banning tourist-related items – Stop the Chop!
for those who may not know: Stop the Chop NY/NJ is an organization worth supporting. The tourist helicopters that whap-whap-whap over the UWS and Central Park (and the UES) EXTRACT – in a loose sense – money from us on the ground to benefit NJ operators.
I was just going to say the same thing, and also sort of tongue in cheek, i.e. that in a decade or so, we’ll see AI robots made to look and sound like horses – maybe not smell quite the same…
Seriously, I have read about how the carriage horses are housed and cared for. I personally have not seen one mistreated, and I’m in the park almost every day.
Horses have a couple of advantages – they are friendly and are loud enough for the humans to hear them approach. Horses also (usually) have no interest in chasing people. Now, when you replace them with electric carriages… Just look at all those other electric vehicles ( on sidewalks and roads going the wrong way through red light ) – watch out!
Perhaps when the City Council takes its hands out of the pockets of the Transport Workers Union, they will come into some moral clarity, stop flouting the overriding will of their constituents and once and for all shut down the abysmal horse carriage industry. As for Liam Neeson, get outta here with your shilling for this inhumane and mercenary industry.. If you really wanna play hero, how about rescuing and rehoming these oppressed beasts of burden to your upstate estate. Clocking in at 34,000 square feet, you should have plenty of room.
I agree completely. It does seem like New Yorkers overwhelmingly want to end horse carriages,but no comments from council speaker.
Kind of off topic, but Liam Nelson does not own that 34,000 square foot house that’s all over the web. That house belongs to a member of the Wildenstein family, and it has been on the market for several years. Liam lives about two miles away in a much smaller house — maybe 6,000 square feet.
They’re almost completely a tourist attraction, so are of virtually no benefit to NYC residents. Getting rid of them would be better for the horses and other users of the park roadways.
I love the horses, it’s a great NYC tradition. Yes they should be well cared for. What we should get rid of are those hideous pedicabs. But, I guess it’s inevitable under the mantle of ‘change’. Well, I guess replacing the old Penn Station with the new Penn Station was change too. So, to ‘replace’ the horses with some faux electric buggies is ridiculous and goes against the hard fought decades long battle to get cars out of the park.
These horses have traditionally not been well cared for. They’re older horses. Years ago they were housed in urban stables on different floors of an unheated building. At one time one was killed by falling out of a 2nd floor opening. Even if conditions of care may have improved tell me how considerate it is to allow these poor creatures to inhale & ingest the fumes of traffic in the City. All day on their feet, lined up in all kinds of weather. Waiting to take some yutz from Iowa for a spin around the park. It’s disgusting, it’s inhumane, it’s cruel. There are better ways to take tourists for a joyride around the park.
GET RID OF THE HORSES.
You speak the truth. People like to romanticize horse carriages in NYC they have no clue how these beautiful animals have to live
Jezbel, this absolutely sums it up; thanks.
Some common sense here: The horses usually work farms till they are too old to, then sold for carriage rides. Think of what the alternative would be for them … it’s not some cushy horse retirement community.
Rescues want to adopt threm
just to clarify for those who don’t understand it, have you ever looked into what happens to used up carriage horses, are those who no longer look good or are unable to make a profit? You might want to check the auctions in new Holland Pennsylvania— and that’s the real world, not the Disney World sanitized version. For many, a gruesome fate awaits.
this is incorrect.
The horse carriages need to go. Enforcement is nowhere, they are overworked and living in horrible conditions. The city should be ashamed for allowing this industry to continue for so long.
I voted for de Blasio solely because he promised to ban horses from the park. Obviously that did not happen.
He promised to ban horse drawn carriages from Central Park because NYCLASS helped him get elected by going after Christine Quinn. As part of the “Anybody but Quinn” coalition which spent $1.4 million of PAC money to defeat her, de Blasio got a clear path to victory in the primary race.
Steve Nislick, a multi millionaire real estate developer who founded NYCLASS wanted the carriage stables near the Javits Center which is now valuable real estate. Of course the stables would have to be sold if there was a ban on the horse drawn carriages.
With all the problems this city faced, why do you think banning the horses was his first piece of legislation introduced in the city council? Wake up and smell the quid pro quo!
If we are to ban horses in Central Park, how about banning dressage horses. Two of them, that I know of, died last year of broken legs from jumping competitions. My family owned a ranch and horses are typically working animals. If cared for properly, and their use regulated, they should remain. The horses are the livelihood of some hard-working New Yorkers. A stable in Central Park, and guidelines to what tempetarure they can work in, would be a positive solution for all.
Dressage horses don’t do jumping competitions…jumping competition horses do, it’s two completely different things. I’m sure that at high levels both types of events stressful for a horse but also the people that participate in these sports generally are in it for the love of horses and treat their animals well. Id be more concerned about race horse treatment tbh…lots of people in that game solely for money, horses are past their peak at 5 years old and either slaughtered or adopted.
Central Park is a protected historic landmark site, and no stables or pasture is happening. The amount of acreage for adequate turnout would be flatly prohibited, even if this weren’t impossible.
The TWU union of carriage drivers has asked for a stable in the park. Up to the City Council and Eric Adams to get ti done.
They should never be on city streets. If we must have them, keep them totally in the park. Seeing them on busy Central Park South is appalling in my opinion.
This cruel, archaic industry has to end. Horses who are prey animals, do not belong in New York City in 2022. They work 9 hours a day 7 days a week without any turnout time in all weather extremes and have to negotiate chaotic, unyielding New York City traffic when going to and coming back from Central Park, in all weather extremes with very minimal restrictions that aren’t enforced anyway. There have been multiple accidents with cars colliding with horses and multiple injuries to the horses and to some people as well. And when they are no longer useful to the industry they are often sold at auction and many times end up in slaughterhouses. This is their “retirement.”
I became a registered nurse 43 years ago because I couldn’t stand to see anyone suffer without doing something to help. I feel the same way about these poor horses. This cruel industry must be cast into the dustbin of history.
I agree. It’s sad to watch these beautiful, sensitive animals go around and around and around — so unnatural AND cruel. If tourists are a concern, let’s get them those electric cars!
Century Park was designed to have horses in it, and they have contributed to its very civilized atmosphere, just as people’s pet dogs do. My sister was a carriage driver — the first woman in that role — and a horse-lover. She knew that the carriage horses are well-treated, in their stables and in the park, and that they pull their carriages with no pain. She also knew that the drivers love their horses, and the park, which they are the city’s most knowledgeable guides to.
I agree, I love the horses.
I love them too. I want them to go to rescues and retire from the lives they endure
Lets please please please get rid of this horrific, archaic and unnecessary practice that has plagued this city for far too long. You’d have to be deaf dumb and blind not to believe tying up an animal for most of its life to pull around obese visitors is a good idea. What is this 1602? It’s embarrassing already
I have lived on the UWS for over 40 years. I truly do no understand how any New Yorker or compassionate human being can look in the eyes of these magnificent animals and not see the sadness and abuse. So many other cities have already transitioned to electric carriages. It is way past time for NYC to do the same.
Ban them completely. I strongly disagree with those suggesting they be removed from the streets but allowed in Central Park. The roads there are also quite busy with runners, cyclists, NYPD and parks vehicles, etc. There is so much excrement that there is a segment on Strava call Horsesh*t Alley. Not to mention that any animal welfare issues will continue as long as the carriages are allowed.
The carriage horses are not “loved” as these abusers claim. I have been around horses for fifty years and they don’t fool me. The question is why does TWU staunchly support the criminally bad actors? This is such a black mark on the unions reputation. Clean up your act
Yes I feel the same. What is in it for them? The horses are not treated with honor or respect. Please urge your city: council member to support intro 573 to end this cycle of horse abuse. It seems in my opinion that the horses àre sqeezed like lemons coming from many years of long days working plows on Amish farms to then pulling thousands of pounds of tourists in carriages 10 plus hours a day then when they are dead they are sold to slaughter rinse repeat. It seems like a machine
Thank you Lisa. Everyone, in addition to calling council members, tell other people in your orbit the truth about this industry. Most people have no clue about proper horse management. Education is powerful.
NOTE: I added myself to the negative comments, but lament the contradiction of also being a meat eater.
No time like the present to make a change.
I’m with Tamara–make room in Central Park for horses— many areas where they could have a field to be “turned out, visitors could watch — stretch legs, roll over etc.; even build stable in park.
Most drivers treat horses well; slaughter is alternative, read up on issue.
So basically the carriage industry is holding the horses hostage: ‘let us exploit and abuse them and make our money or we will murder them?’
Keep the horses but they can’t leave Central Park. Simple. The stables should be inside the park so the horses are never on the streets.
You have to understand that can never happen. please understand: this can’t happen. Central Park is a protected landmark. A space study has been done. This is impossible from a turnout standpoint, even if it weren’t prohibited.
I think it’s outrageous to continue to have horses working here. I’m a native New Yorker and just because something’s a “New York tradition” doesn’t mean it’s smart or ethical.
I’m 100% for retiring all the horses and making sure they go to no-kill farms where they are treated humanely and can live out the rest of their lives in peace.
BRAVO !!!! 🌹
The horses are over worked not well taken care of and breathe auto fumes
Pedi cabs and electric carriages are a better alternative
If kept they should have better care guidelines
It would be very interesting and informative to hear from an equine vet or legitimate horse expert on this topic. Opinions are fun, but would like some actual information. If you’re out there, weigh in!
Incomplete list, far too many to count. This is the primary reason. Horses are skittish animals and don’t belong on city streets. Simple. https://www.banhdc.org/ch-acc.shtml
Re: Sue’s recommendation: Center for a Humane Economy: https://centerforahumaneeconomy.org/2022/09/09/animal-welfare-advocates-seek-investigation-of-nyc-carriage-horse-industry/
It is the August 23rd release by the Center for Humane Economy that is written by Dr. Keen. Read it and weep.Thanks for website info Alf
Dr. Jim Keen of Center for Humane Society wrote a very thorough piece.
I think it’s time to free the horses. I have traveled all over the world and it’s appalling how some of these animals are treated. If you are eager for a charming horse ride, go to the Merry-Go-Round
I have lived by the Park on the Upper Westside my entire life. For decades, I’ve witnessed these horses get abused. It’s a regular occurrence. I’m disgusted by the carriage industry and the failure of the City Council to respond to do anything. Enough is enough!
Horses have been part of the city since the 17th century. The stables may not look like a Ralph Lauren ad to you, but they are well fitted and better than lots of horse housing you find anywhere. Lots of people with zero horse experience are weighing in as though they knew what constitutes good horsekeeping. Those people are falling prey to the land grab of NYCLASS, which is run and funded by a real estate group that wants to build condos on the stable grounds. Don’t send out horses to slaughter for the sake of greedy real estate people.
Horse carriages should continue! One of the positive reasons people come to the city is for the experience. Electric carriages and the hustlers that come with them are a totally negative experience.
i LOVE horses but they don’t belong on city streets!!!!!
I am a lifelong (70+ years) resident of the UWS, and I hope to contribute to ending the carriage horse travesty during my lifetime. Carriage horses are horribly mistreated and abused and no amount of regulation will be able to fix that. As others have noted, just because it’s a “tradition”, does not mean it should be maintained for the sake of nostalgia, while it is harming sentient beings and contributing to others’ suffering. Many outdated traditions, such as slavery, women not having the right to vote, child labor, are no longer allowed based on 21st century morality, ethics, and laws. The mistreatment and abuse of animals for our pleasure must stop. Options exist for these poor animals to live out their days in sanctuary, and the carriage drivers could be given the opportunity to be integrated into other tourist service jobs. Most of all, it is our responsibility to free these horses from their daily trauma and abuse. So many things are not in our control, let us choose to correct something that is entirely within our power. Let this be true for New York City: “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated” Ghandi.
Well-articulated!
Horses in NYC are regulated https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-topics/horses.page
As a bird watcher and animal lover, I have spent many hours in Central Park and seen many carriage horses. I have never seen them mistreated, and I see very happy people riding in their carriages. The horse that collapsed was ill. That could happen to any of us at any time. It doesn’t happen every day. Occasionally one has a traffic accident, but so do many more taxis, much more often. These horses are bred to work, as was mentioned by someone else, and if they have proper work hours and general treatment, as specified in the regulations, I am not worried about them. I love having them as part of the city that I have lived in for most of my life.
Love them. It’s poor driver training.
Love them! They are part of our history and children need to see them… Just regulate their care…
If you care about the welfare of horses, you should want to keep the carriages. Pulling carriages in Central Park is a second career for these animals, who otherwise would be sent you-know-where. Has anyone asked a horse what he/she would prefer? This is really about developers wanting to get ahold of the Midtown buildings now used as stables.
you do realize that they already go to “you know where”? Billy, who went on to become known as Bobby II freedom, was found at the New Holland slaughter auctions just in the nick of time by the Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages. And his “owner” referred to him as “it.” He was in bad shape, although he found a safe home at Equine Advocates, he was plagued by problems caused by working on city streets. https://www.equineadvocates.org/in-memoriam-bobby-ii-freedom/
So all the horse rescue groups are in this to get real estate. Like the veterans group Unbridled Heroes. Really? The veterans are looking to buy Manhattan real estate?
Hoo Boy! I see why the TWU keeps telling their outrageous lies. Some people believe them
If there is abuse of the horses why isn’t it being documented and managed like other city services…If horses don’t belong on city streets why are they not restricted to the park…if life pulling a carriage in Central Park is in itself abuse then why not ban all work horses in the world?
If you had to be an animal which would you choose : a chicken slaughtered after 6 weeks of life; a cow repeatedly inseminated only to lose all her calves at birth; a piglet who says bye to mom at 3 weeks and in six months weighs 250 lbs and is dead…or a horse pulling a carriage in Central Park for 20 years?
How about replacing the horses with a stylized electric train caboose, colorful but harming no one. Drivers will retain employment and horses will no longer be exploited. It’s okay to start a new tradition. Horses can be a part of our history and a new style of buggy/train ride can be a charming start to a different future.
I note that some say horses are for tourists. Don’t city residents profit from tourism? Also, as someone pointed out, if the horses weren’t working and living here where would they be? Would a horse prefer to be dead rather than in NYC?
I used to walk past the horses on my way to my East side dentist. I was happy to see and be near such noble animals on my way back and forth. I never thought to bring an apple or carrot to feed them. I’m sorry now.
Re their treatment. Horse people are like everybody else, most good, some not so good. In the main, I’m sure they like and treat their animals in their own best interests.
I am 81 years old. And lived on the upper west side for over 50 years. I am continually amazed by a loud population that will pick fixable problem and go all out to push their view on the rest of the population. Another “problem” was the dreadful way the Museum of Natural History Wes treated when they decided to expand and upgrade the layout of the Museum. An organization that I am a member and cost the organization a lot of money and years of court battles.
If the horses were housed in the park the danger of the traffic to them would not be a problem. Oh no. It’s much more fun to takeaway what has offered employment to a devoted community who has a history of 150 years. Some of us say Enough!!!
It’s the stables! No one who will be making decisions about the horse drawn carriages and their drivers really cares about the horses or the drivers, do they? They want the stables in Hell’s Kitchen so they can tear them down and build shiny towers with river views for rich people! I remember when the Bridle Path in Central Park was, well, a Bridle Path, until the economics of keeping the horses in their stables on the Upper East Side just became untenable. And more recently DeBlasio promised to ban the carriages because he had a deal with a campaign contributor who happened to be a real estate developer. They were going to build 50% affordable apartments where the stables are (it’s true–see Politico https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/city-hall/story/2017/12/27/as-real-estate-exec-sought-carriage-ban-he-pitched-affordable-housing-near-stables-161599 ). I think it fell through because there was too much heat from animal rights activists and the carriage drivers’ union. We’ll see what Adams does, though I doubt we’ll get affordable apartments out of a deal with him.
Oh please! Horses have been pulling carriages for years. Lives have depended on them! They’ve plowed fields, pulled stage coaches, corralled animals, brought joy to many people….etc.!! There are some children who have never seen a horse, and they can see them in NYC! I say keep the horses but build the stables IN Central Park. Electric cars is ridiculous! We drive cars daily…..but a horse-drawn carriage? Now that’s a NYC special, as well as a Vienna special, as well as a London special, as well as a Munich special……..just to name a few. Electric cars???? Phewieeee!!
I love the horses. They have a retro charm and add something special to the fabric of the city.
I grew up around horses and have seen no indication among the carriage horses I’ve observed that they are mistreated or, as one comment posited, unhappy. And, they are not worked hard.
There is nothin inherently bad about horses being in an urban setting or pulling carriages. By all means make sure they are healthy and well treated. Have professionals who know horses review their care. But don’t anthropomorphize them. Pulling a carriage is not servitude for a horse.
HORSE DRAWN CARRAGES ARE A REAL TRADITION IN ‘CENTRAL PARK. THEY SHOULD STAY BUT THE CITY SHOULD ALSO ‘WATCH DOG” HOW THE HORSES ARE TREATED JUST THE WAY THE CITY MONITORS MANY OTHER INSITUTIONS THAT MAKE UP THE MANHATTAN SCENE.
It is sad that this debate is still going on. Keeping the horses in the city and on the NYC streets is cruel and inhumane. For someone’s half hour ride that they think is a romantic fairytale is just disgraceful. Horses do not belong here! They should not be trotting on pavement or forced to inhale car fumes day in and day out. Let these poor creatures live their lives in green pastures.
I always enjoyed seeing horses on my walks around the city. I’m so old I recall the horse-drawn junk collectors wagons. The mounted police horses are stunning–beautiful creatures.
These horses are treated better than many humanoid New Yorkers. They have regularly scheduled vacations on a farm in the Catskills. They are well cared for while in the city. They don’t work if it’s too hot or too cold. They are the livelihood of many people; which is why they are well taken care of. Horses are work animals. They can not be house trained, they are not pets.
The stables are in buildings on the far West Side of midtown Manhattan. They occupy valuable real estate. Real Estate developers have been trying for years to have horse drawn carriages banned from the city so they can tear down the buildings and build high rise luxury apartments. We need more housing that is actually affordable for teachers, musicians, chefs, hourly wage earners, not more “luxury” apartments. These developers are very well connected. And they are very rich. Elected politicians in NY need contributions to run campaigns. Rich people with agendas contribute to their campaigns.
If there are people who feel bad or sorry for these horses, don’t. They have jobs they love and better benefits than many humans in New York.
Ryder obviously loved his job
Has any objective in-depth study of how the horses are treated ever been done? Seeing a horse collapse on the street is truly traumatic but do we absolutely know that this was evidence of ongoing neglect or abuse or was it anomalous? For me the horses are a joyous and iconic feature of my neighborhood but then maybe I read too much Edith Wharton. I recall Liam Neeson going to bat for the horses and persuasively arguing that since the horses are the livelihood of their owners it is in their best interest to care well for them.
It demeans and abuses these regal animals to have them stand in the heat and cold merely to trot around for a human’s amusement vanity, etc
Not trying to sound sanctimonious but, I have worked with horses almost all of my life. Retiring and moving to the UWS only recently. These people take very good care of their horses. I have never seen signs of abuse or neglect. Quite the opposite is true. Are we all aware of the other jobs that horses are asked to do? Almost all those jobs are worse than being a carriage horse in Central Park.
😂 do you not know these poor horses are Amish farm horses that then are sent to NYC to be futher worked to death?
Please read up more on this issue.
Till you know more here
https://centerforahumaneeconomy.org/2022/09/09/animal-welfare-advocates-seek-investigation-of-nyc-carriage-horse-industry/