By Abigael T. Sidi
Talk about something rare.
On her way to the West Village earlier this month, an Upper West Sider hopped onto a train at the 72nd Street and Broadway station, and made an unexpected discovery.
She was riding an 11 train.
This is strange, perhaps stranger than the recent 9 train appearance in Manhattan that West Side Rag reported on at the end of June.
Unlike the 9 train, the 11 train is not an “old friend” that used to make stops in the neighborhood. Instead, while it is strangely difficult to confirm the exact route of the former 11 line, multiple sources indicate that it used to operate along the Myrtle Avenue line in Brooklyn, before it was replaced in either the late 1960s or early 1970s by the M and J trains.
“I’ll take your number 9 line and raise you a number 11,” the tipster wrote to the Rag, also clarifying that it was running on the 1 train route. “The baffling phenomenon of rogue cars reemerging from ‘extinct’ subway lines continues…”
The Rag reached out to the MTA for more information on the former 11 line, but the agency referred us to the New York Transit Museum, which has not responded to our request.
What we can confirm from our research, though, is that the 11 train did not make appearances on the Upper West Side. It is also not the first time the old line has been spotted around the city, along with a few other terminated lines, such as the 8 and 12.
If there are any readers who can let us know more about the 11 line in the comments, it would be greatly appreciated.
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It’s not 11. It is a stuttering 1.
I got on a 10 train once, down at SouthFerry. Had a green background circle. It was March 11, 2020. Nothing was making a whole lot of sense at that time anyway.
I’m beginning to think some prankster has figured out how to open the scroll box and affix rogue numbers. Which would probably not be hard given the decrepitude of the 1-2-3 line cars.
Next up: numbers and colors that never existed. I vote for an orange zero in honor of this summer’s signature subway experience: a hot car going nowhere.
Or a manipulated photo
There are transit fans that illicitly obtain keys for this stuff.
“Why don’t you just take the number 10 train and make that one a little faster?”
“Well, I’m sure I’d feel much worse if I weren’t under such heavy sedation.”
Are we sure it’s not an old express 1? I don’t even know if that exists, but in the olden days, didn’t they distinguish between express and local by doubling the line name for one of them (e.g., there was an A and an AA). Unlikely, but an idea.
After what, 40 years, I’m still saying “N / Double R”.
I’ve never heard of an “express 1 train”, other than the 2 and 3. And when the doubled characters were used, it was the double that was the local (like the express A and the local AA you cite). So that’s not an explanation for this 11 train.
This one goes to eleven
Charles Addams: “Z Train” (sorry, I don’t know how to post an image)
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjDpJ3yH-4M-2lwwPLtdl0ioYCNhP0ky-4uBujQe6WLst89oz-VIxH1MkC7pc_yYTnL4qR1EvkHW99TR3rhW8uJBDhvQwCm-OwQw3SkuBnMNdFIz7sha_DG69a93WhNIKBSG7f9GvcNUgpu/s1600/Addams%252C+Charles-Z+Train.jpg
Never heard of this one, I do remember one with a plane instead of a number when I was in junior high. Been ages since I’ve seen it.
There used to be a train to the plane, which was supposed to be an extension to the A train but fell far short from getting anywhere near to JFK
That was the “Train to the Plane” line that went to Jamaica whereby you had to transfer to a bus to JFK airport
To sum things up, the 11 bullet was meant to be the rollsign for the current 7 express. This also goes with other double digit rollsigns such as the 10, 12, and 13, being used to indicate rish hour services and express services. Though they are not used, they were created in case of possible future use
Spot-on correct…It’s 11 on a purple bullet. If ever it happens, in Flushing they’ll be shouting: “Oh thank heaven for 7/11!”
I was on a K train back in 2018!
This is slightly misleading. Before unification of the BMT, IRT and IND lines, BMT and IRT lines, operated by private companies, had separate route designations. Before switching to letter designations of J and above like the IND (which had routes A through H), 11 was in fact the BMT Myrtle line. The 11 on these 1980’s R62 cars were due to the fact that their roll signs being non-digital were made with provisions for additional routes in addition to 1 to 7 (with 9 being used for a while). In fact I believe in the early days of the IRT they did not have any numeric route numbers, just ‘names’ and destinations of routes (i.e. – Broadway, Lexington, etc.)
Yup. I remember my dad saying things like “Take the IRT Lexington Ave local to 68th St.”
The 11 train was a BMT line that ran from Metropolitan Ave to Park Row. It was shortened to Bridge-Jay Sts. 1940. The line was discontinued in October 1969. The trains that ran then didn’t have the number displayed. The 11 shown in the photo was to be used by the IRT, if another numbered line was needed
my mistake, service to Park Row ended March 5th, 1944 and shortened to Bridge-Jay Streets
Was the design the same back then?
According to my son, Benjamin Kabak, creator and writer of the popular 2nd Avenue Sagas blog, “That’s not the same 11. That 11 is reserved in case they ever change service patterns for the 7 or extend it. That’s why it’s the same purple.”
That’s an excellent blog! Perhaps when the next World’s Fair happens in Flushing Meadow Park, the “11” can be the “Super Express”, which was an actual reading on the old roll signs…More likely to happen in the year 2525.
“What we can confirm from our research, though, is that the 11 train did not make appearances on the Upper West Side. ”
Did NOT?
The IRT did not use numbers until the R12’s 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 . They never numbered their Els. The BMT used numbers until mid-60’s with the delivery of the R27s and the impending merger with the IND with the Christie Street Connection:. Those original numbers:
1-Brighton; 2-4th Ave Local; 3-West End; 4-Sea Beach; 5-Culver; 6-Fifth Avenue El; 7-Brighton–Franklin; 8-Astoria (BMT); 9-Flushing (BMT); 10-Myrtle-Chambers; 11-Myrtle El; 12-Lexington El; 13-Fulton El; 14-Broadway–Brooklyn; 15-Jamaica Line; and 16-Canarsie. (All Els in Brooklyn) Once the D-types were retired, only letters were used that were extensions of the IND lettering system. See https://dlab.epfl.ch/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/n/New_York_City_Subway_nomenclature.htm
for a really nice history.
Note: The IRT & BMT jointly operated the Astoria & Flushing lines until after WW2.
someone screwing around with these old mechanical signs really isn’t very newsworthy
Whatever happened to the ‘K’ line? This comes back to me from early childhood in nyc.
As memory serves I think it was within the BMT. Anybody remember where it traveled and when?