Upper West Siders Protest M104 Bus Cuts at MTA Hearing


Photo via wikimedia.

Assembly Member Linda Rosenthal and other Upper West Siders spoke out at an MTA hearing on Monday against planned service cuts on the M104, which travels up and down Broadway. The line has seen decreased ridership in recent years, but Rosenthal says that’s because of a decline in service and reliability.

Under a plan set to be implemented next month, the MTA is looking to run one fewer bus per hour for much of the day. But Rosenthal sees it as part of a pattern that has made it progressively harder for locals to get around.

It’s a vicious cycle, according to Rosenthal. The more the MTA cuts service, the more people abandon the bus because it’s unreliable. And the more they abandon the bus, the more likely that the MTA will make more cuts to account for lower ridership. In 2011, the M104 accommodated 12,626 rides daily, but that number fell to 8,223 by 2016, Rosenthal says.

“The M104 used to be one of the most popular and well-loved bus routes in the City, but year and year of services cuts have caused riders to flee the bus in droves in search of other more reliable methods of transportation,” she said in a statement. “This death by a thousand cuts approach to bus infrastructure has rendered the M104 a mere shell of its former self. Now, the MTA uses the declining ridership caused by its cuts to justify yet another round of cuts. This logic doesn’t pass the laugh test.”

An MTA spokesperson sent the following statement in response:

“NYC Transit regularly adjusts service to reflect changes in ridership. We are committed to working with communities to ensure that these changes are reflective of the actual conditions on the ground. The changes planned for the M104 include a more realistic schedule designed to make service more reliable and predictable, which we hope will help ridership, and does not preclude any further refinements as needed. These changes are aimed at improving reliability for the rider.”

NEWS | 115 comments | permalink
    1. manhattan Mark says:

      It’s simple, uncover the Trolly tracks, they are still there on
      left lane running along side the center malls of Broadway. Trolly’s are still running in other cities…just buy enough to get it started. The left lane will be exclusivly for public transportation (no cars,no bikes, no traffic interfereing with
      getting people where they wantto go).

    2. Marci says:

      There’s always a long wait for the 104. It’s the most frustrating bus line of all. It never runs on schedule, and then you’ll have two, sometimes three buses come one after the other. And now they want to cut the service even more? Screw the people who need the service the most. That’s the motto of the MTA.

      • dannyboy says:

        ” It never runs on schedule, and then you’ll have two, sometimes three buses come one after the other.”

        Provides for minimum work for the drivers.

    3. dannyboy says:

      “The changes planned for the M104 include a more realistic schedule designed to make service more reliable and predictable, which we hope will help ridership, and does not preclude any further refinements as needed. These changes are aimed at improving reliability for the rider.” MTA

      MTA-speak translates CUTS into:
      (1) “to make service more reliable and predictable, which we hope will help ridership”
      (2)”These changes are aimed at improving reliability for the rider.”

    4. Carlos says:

      The apps that tell you how long the wait will be have been a blessing and a curse for this bus. Historically I stayed far away from buses. Now if I see that one is coming very soon, I will take a bus. But if I see that it will be 10 minutes (which is often the case), I give up and take the subway.

      Unfortunately, I know that for many people, the subway is not an easy option. Which is part of the problem with this bus. It follows a fairly reliable subway route, so all able-bodied people tend to use the subway, leaving the bus increasingly used by those who are more mobility-impaired. These people tend to take much longer to get on and off the bus, slowing it down further, making it even less appealing for those with a choice. I am not placing blame here – I think all people should have access to public transportation and thus it is critical that the bus continues running reliably so that those who really depend on it have a way to get around. When I had smaller children I was one of those who really depended on the bus and was truly grateful for its existence and frequency.

    5. Jay says:

      There’s this thing that runs below ground these days called the subway. You might of heard of it from your friends, but it runs faster than the bus and comes more often. You might try it sometime.

      • EricaC says:

        There are these things called disability, injury and aging that impair the ability of people to access the subway. They may also impair the ability of a person to walk five blocks one way or the other. You should be aware of these things. (Sorry, sarcasm ran out – the last sentence is genuine.)

        I am recovering from a knee injury and find it extremely difficult to take the subway where there isn’t an elevator or escalator. The buses are a godsend. I don’t use this line, but Broadway is a major shopping street for a lot of people, and for them, this may be a significant issue.

      • Julia says:

        Some of us can’t do stairs, nor walk the distance to the subway stations that do have elevators.

      • Westside_Mimi says:

        You forget that buses are wheelchair accessible. What are those folks supposed to do?

      • dannyboy says:

        Jay, who are you writing to when you wrote:

        (1) **You** might of heard of it from your friends…
        (2) **You** might try it sometime.

        Who ARE you writing to? Or just baaing?

      • Marci says:

        Jay, the subway is great, but not everyone can manage the stairs. And what’s wrong with having both subways and buses? They both provide a service.

        • Jay says:

          It’s redundant service, Marci. So, no one should be surprised when people adjust their mode of transport due to changes in service. The MTA knows how many people use the bus, so I still don’t understand why they should direct their limited resources on a route that doesn’t carry as many people.

          • dannyboy says:

            “I still don’t understand why they should direct their limited resources on a route that doesn’t carry as many people.”

            Jay,
            Because the benefit to the people riding the buses exceeds the cost of running the buses. That’s how it would be decided in a Democracy.

            • Jay says:

              So, you’re saying you’d rather a popular bus route in the Bronx should be cut before an unpopular bus route in the upper west side. How neighborly of you, dan.

          • dannyboy says:

            Jay,

            Just stop making things up. I have never said that I’d “rather a popular bus route in the Bronx should be cut before an unpopular bus route in the upper west side.” I lived decades in The Bronx and my son lives there now. Just stop your lying.

            Now as to: “How neighborly of you, dan.” – I WAS BEING NEIGHBORLY when I wrote that the bus routes should remain because they benefit people.

            And that’s Mr. dannyboy to you.

            • Jay says:

              This is a zero sum. There are only so many buses.

              Tell us why a route that only has 25 people on a bus, should keep its service as is when there is a bus that has 50 people on a bus and leaves passengers behind?

              Answering that there should be more buses is not a valid response. Please, stick to the facts, Dan.

            • Juan says:

              Jay’s point that you chose to bastardize is that running the MTA is all about making choices. So by increasing the frequency of the M104, something else has to be cut (or not increased). We do not have infinite resources. So Senor dannyboy, whose services do you plan to cut in order to increase services in your neighborhood? Sounds kind of selfish of you…

            • dannyboy says:

              First read the article.
              Then, and only then, write your Comments.

              ” So by increasing the frequency of the M104, something else has to be cut (or not increased). We do not have infinite resources. So Senor dannyboy, whose services do you plan to cut in order to increase services in your neighborhood? Sounds kind of selfish of you…” -Juan

              There IS NO MENTION of ‘increasing the frequency of the 104’ in this WSR article. MTA plans CUTS!

              So, as you have said: “point that you chose to bastardize”.

            • Jay says:

              As expected, Dan won’t answer the question. He and the rest of the gang always has lots to criticize, but no answers. Typical.

            • dannyboy says:

              Jay, but I did answer the question.

              Juan asked: “Jay’s point that you chose to bastardize is that running the MTA is all about making choices. So by increasing the frequency of the M104, something else has to be cut (or not increased). We do not have infinite resources. So Senor dannyboy, whose services do you plan to cut in order to increase services in your neighborhood?”

              I responded that I do not plan to cut services on ANYONE’S Service Line, BECAUSE there is no need to cut service.

      • nat says:

        “”There’s this thing that runs below ground these days called the subway. You might of heard of it ”
        There’s this thing in the bookstore called English Grammar for All.
        You might HAVE heard of it.

      • You're Welcome says:

        Jay,
        You’ll stop being needlessly mean-spirited on this issue when (and this isn’t an IF, but a WHEN):

        –You get injured
        –You get old
        –Someone close to you gets injured
        –Someone close to you gets old
        –Someone close to you has a impairment in mobility
        –You have a small child
        –You have to transport something heavy

        I hope when one or more of these things comes to pass, you think back to the time when you chose to be gravely insensitive to those who are less mobile than you are. You will then realize the purpose of city buses. Transportation isn’t all about YOU.

      • Cyrus says:

        Jay, the subway is not an option for everyone. Elderly, disabled…you may have heard of them.

    6. Bob Lamm says:

      The MTA’s “logic” is fascinating. Next step: perhaps they’ll eliminate the M104 bus entirely. Then service will be entirely “reliable and predictable.” No long waits. No buses bunching up. Have to love how service cuts are called “refinements.”

      • dannyboy says:

        1984 Speak

      • rothmere says:

        Quik take.. Linda’s concern for bus riders is correct. It is beyond absurd. MTA needs new management. One notices a disproportionate inverser relation between corporate suite salary wars and concomitant suffering of those (US! daily bus/subway riders) on behalf of their decision making. We must motivate them. Cut MTA management salaries by 30% restitution of whi will be based on thinking resulting in improved service and PERFORMANCE with no consumer fare rate hikes for 2 years.

    7. Spare Us says:

      “The M104 used to be one of the most popular and well-loved bus routes in the City…..

      Popular? Well-loved? WTF? Most-used, maybe.
      But people don’t ‘love’ bus routes. They use them based on utility, not based on affection.

      “This logic doesn’t pass the laugh test.”

      Neither does your over-wrought rhetoric, lady.

      • Lin says:

        Most people I know prefer a bus. This includes me. Trains are hard for us to access in terms of stairs and getting seats. Then there’s having to change trains with
        more stairs to negotiate. Some stations have elevators
        but 72nd eg does not. Bus service should be improved
        and not removed. Also, I have noticed 104 to oftem be
        Be pretty packed. I have to stand more often than not.
        This must say something about ridership. I still rather stand on a bus journey than negotiate trains unless thst’s the only way to get there.

        • Juan says:

          Are most people you know over 60? As someone noted above, buses have become the preferred means of transportation for the elderly. Those who can use the subway do because the buses have become so unreliable, and the unreliability is compounded by the fact that most of the users are old, which just slows things down more.

          That being said, the elderly deserve to get where they need to go, so service should be maintained to assist them. Otherwise the city will be spending even more on Access-a-ride.

      • dannyboy says:

        “Popular? Well-loved? WTF?…
        Neither does your over-wrought rhetoric, lady.”

        “A Nation should not be judged by how it treats its highest citizens, but it’s lowest ones”

        ― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedomhttps://www.goodreads.com/quotes/582479-a-nation-should-not-be-judged-by-how-it-treats

        So PLEASE “Spare Us” your WTFs

    8. PaulCons says:

      Rosenthal is exactly right… I’ve lived where the 104 runs for 40+ years, I have seen it go from something that comes every 5 minutes to waiting over 20 mins for a bus to arrive. Of COURSE I have sought out other avenues to travel… not much sense in waiting over 20 mins for a 10 min ride. Over all that time there has been steady decline in service on this line, and it looks like it now is going to be every half hour for a bus to arrive. Then almost nobody will use it, so they will simply completely eliminate it.

    9. chemster says:

      Well, I guess if the M104 never arrives, that’s reliable… just not the kind of reliability I’d like to have.

      More seriously, though, if they run one less bus an hour, I would expect to see more bunching, less reliability, and fewer riders. With bustime, I can now see how far away the M104 is… and I won’t bother if it’s going to be a long wait.

    10. Wendy says:

      I agree, the service and reliability on the M104 bus has declined. You simply cannot calculate an accurate arrival time on the bus going south on Broadway (the M11 and M7 uptown are even worse). So most people just use the subway.

      • Cyrus says:

        Question: I’m curious if you’re the same “wendy” who posts non-sensically on occasion.

    11. Cyrus says:

      Reduced bus service is never a good thing. But one solution is to walk one block over and grab an M7/M11 on Amsterdam, or even two blocks over to Columbus going southbound. Those buses run much more regularly.

    12. Marilyn Sulzbacker says:

      The ridership will certainly increase if they restored the old route which went across 42nd Street to the east side. This is so sorrlymissed

      • DD says:

        You’re so right Ms. Sulzacker. That’s just what I always keep thinking: “why on earth was the route of the M104 changed?” The crosstown route was just perfect for riders from that area on the east side to get to the West Side and vice versa. Particularly from Grand Central to the West Side and traveling from the West Side to Grand Central. Now we have to take taxis from and to Grand Central. It’s a hassle!

        • Sue says:

          I’m still upset that they changed the route of the number 5 bus. It was great for getting to and from the village. Now it stops around 30th street

    13. David Morris says:

      I remember when, for much of the day on weekdays, the posted schedule for the 104 read “Frequent Service,” which meant a bus every 3-5 minutes. I get on the 104 at 97th. St., and it’s already crowded. On weekends, subway service is impossible. Mass transit is the heart, soul, backbone, and respiration of the city. When will we learn?

    14. Lyri Clark says:

      This is so obvious. The M104 cut their route and no longer went across to Grand Central and the UN, not to mention a 5th avenue stop for the Library. Therefore, ridership decreased because the 104 no longer went where riders needed. How smart do you have to be to figure that out? Return the original route and you will get the increased ridership. Really so basic.

      • Carlos says:

        It actually isn’t basic. I see two themes here – the bus doesn’t run frequently enough, and they should restore the crosstown part. Guess what – 42nd Street is often a congested nightmare, so if you think the frequency is bad now, wait until the buses are all sitting in traffic on 42nd Street rather than going up and down Broadway, which is their core mission. Is it really that hard to transfer, either by taking the 104 down then a 42 across or taking something crosstown further uptown then transferring to a bus down Lex or 2nd?

        Also, I just want to be sure that all of those asking for more frequent buses are also OK with having their taxes and/or fares raised to pay for it? Since this route is apparently so crucial to senior citizens, perhaps the senior fare should be raised to pay for it? Everyone always wants more services but no one is ever willing to pay for it.

        • dannyboy says:

          “Since this route is apparently so crucial to senior citizens, perhaps the senior fare should be raised to pay for it” – Carlos

          Singling out Seniors to exclusively pay for Pubic Services is disgraceful. Who pays for Public Schools?

        • jay says:

          Finally… a common sense comment that uses some logic.

          • dannyboy says:

            Jay,

            Singling out Seniors to exclusively pay for Pubic Services is disgraceful. Who pays for Public Schools?

        • Sarah says:

          Speak for yourself. I’m willing to pay more in taxes to have a society that looks after its people. And reducing the mobility of seniors and the disabled costs us in additional support services, anyway.

        • Cryus says:

          Carlos, you’re making way too much sense for the people who post on this board

          • dannyboy says:

            Singling out Seniors to exclusively pay for Pubic Services is disgraceful. Who pays for Public Schools?

      • DD says:

        You’re spot on!!!!!!

    15. Lauren says:

      1. I find 104 – especially on weekends – totally unreliable – but I do love the bus on weekends when train is a freak show. MTA needs a total financial forensic investigation – so corrupt and wasteful.
      2. LOVE this Trolley car idea from Manhattan Mark- would also maybe give a ‘hook’ the UWS and start some re-rejuvenation!

      • dannyboy says:

        “train is a freak show” – Lauren

        Great use of visual language!

      • manhattan Mark says:

        Lauren, thanks for your support. I was only a child but I loved
        riding he trolly…There was a driver’s seat at each end and it was OK for a kid to sit there when when the trolly was going
        in the opposite direction….great memories!

    16. Jan Lindemann says:

      The first, and to me the worst , cut made to the 104 was eliminating the route across 42nd St. It was a convenient way to get to midtown east without a transfer. Now they want to cut the number of busses each hour, which will probably cut ridership even more. The MTA simply does not care about bus customers, many of whom are seniors or disabled for which the subway is not a viable alternative.

    17. Catherine C. says:

      I agree 100% with Assembly Member Rosenthal. I, too, used to ride almost nothing but the m104 but then I just could not rely on it showing up with any kind of reasonable regularity so I started taking the buses on Columbus Ave. There is nothing quite as frustrating as waiting 20 minutes for an M104 to show up especially when you are standing there with bags of groceries in the pouring rain.

      The MTA is completely ridiculous by asserting that ridership is down for lack of interest. The ridership is down because of crappy service that forced us to seek other means of transportation.

      • kenneth b says:

        There is nothing quite as frustrating as waiting 20 minutes for an M104 to show up especially when you are standing there with bags of groceries in the pouring rain. AND THEN YOU HAVE TO STAND IN THE VERY CROWDED AISLE TRYING TO HOLD ONTO THOSE BAGS !

      • nat says:

        Fully agree on both counts.

    18. judy Rivkin says:

      A big change happened when the route was stopped at Times Square/42 Street instead of heading east crosstown on 42 street.

    19. Bill Sharfman says:

      You can’t increase ridership by cutting service. That’s the crux of it, and it reflects their faulty, flawed logic. I argued this to the MTA, as have dozens of other riders in whatever why they put it. You’re standing at a 104 bus stop, the conversation is always the same, where is the damn bus, this used to be such a reliable service. Then they look at their watch, and go get into a taxi. By this logic if the MTA stopped service altogether it would be justified because the ridership would instantly drop to zero.

    20. CR says:

      Ridership changed when budget cuts led to drastic change in M104’s route that used to go east on 42nd St. from 7th Avenue. At a CB7 meeting, I heard that the old route was going to be reinstated … because many riders, particularly seniors, disliked having to transfer to another bus to go east towards U.N. I continue to miss that option … and many would probably take the M104 more if it goes the old route again.

      • Lyri Clark says:

        Yes CR, we all agree. The 104 was supposed to restore the route so we could get to Grand Central etc. Without wading thru the “Elmo” people and tourists to transfer. Carrying luggage and briefcases..it’s impossible. It makes no sense. Grand Central is a huge business hub and tourists also need it. Where do the so-called decision makers live that they don’t know this?

    21. Sick and Tired (Mostly Tired) says:

      There’s another reason for a decline in ridership. The convenience of taking the 104 to the (excuse the expression) East Side was stripped away not many years ago. The 104 used to run all the way east along 42 St., and was a great way to make it cross-town from the UWS on one bus. No more.

    22. DD says:

      Years ago, the M104 Bus used to be one of the most useful crosstown buses because it brought riders from East 42nd Street to the West Side and connected riders from the West Side to East 42nd Street. But after, its route changed and restricted it to the West Side only, the M104 became less useful to many riders. It’s no longer a crosstown bus as it used to be. On the West Side, other buses like the M7 and M11 do the same West Side route and even go further downtown than the M104 which ends on West 43rd (?). The new route for the M104 was a big loss to crosstowners from the West Side to the East Side and vice versa!!!!

    23. Paul says:

      It’s always a pleasure to read the many thoughtful, articulate comments. Unfortunately there’s no end to the gratuitously mean-spirited ones. To you angry scribes, I suggest that before you lash out take the time to actually read some of the previous comments; it may just allay some of your general, overall unhappiness. If that doesn’t work, The UWS has more therapists per capita than anywhere else in the country.

    24. Diane says:

      Do any of the MTA bigshots use the system on a regular basis? Cutting back any service in any borough in 2018 is asinine, short-sited, stupid and OUT OF THE QUESTION!

      The M104 is a vital form of transportation for all the people who cannot navigate the subway for multiple reasons–mostly, handicap. So many seniors use this bus to go grocery shopping, travel to their healthcare provider and or enjoy the city–movies, theatre, museums etc. We need MORE M104’s during the day and night; not less!

    25. Julia says:

      The fact that it no longer continues along 42nd to the UN may also be a factor in decreased ridership. I used to regard it as one of the magic buses (along with the #4) that goes across town and downtown.

    26. Julia says:

      boo hoo

    27. Nick says:

      Linda? Or Helen?

    28. Kenneth says:

      ” We are committed to working with communities…”
      WHAT EXACTLY DOES THE WORD “COMMITTED” MEAN?

    29. Barli says:

      I have lived near the M104 for 40 years, and it was a great route, cutting over on 42nd Street to Fifth Avenue, Grand Central and the United Nations without need for a transfer. Now, one fewer bus per hour?? I take it at Lincoln Center, and on evenings after the Lincoln Center performances have let out and people have had a post-performance coffee, it’s not unusual to wait for an hour for a bus to appear. These cuts in bus service on the UWS have been a boon for Uber and other road-clogging car services. And dreadful for people unable to negotiate the stairs to the subway. Restore the traditional route, increase the frequency — and watch ridership soar!

    30. dannyboy says:

      For those with a curiosity and interest in life…

      https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shaloha

    31. Jackie Tolkowsky says:

      The MTA abrogated its reaponsibility when it decided to no longer service east Siders by cutting crosstown from the east side theeeby making it doubly difficult for ppl trying to access the upper west side from points east of Times Square!

      Let them kindly reinstate crosstown service along 42nd steer and I can assure you ridership will definitely increase . That’s the REAL reason why! I’m some times waiting half an hour at Columbus circle midday for one to show up bc I have an appointment and maybe bad knees that day, and it’s severly unreliabile schedule is a constant detriment all around!

    32. Jen says:

      And your point is?

      • dannyboy says:

        There was a bus schedule book years ago that included a map of the M104 Bus Route to the United Nations, and that included the estimated time for the trip to be 45 minutes.

        What tripped you up…U.N.?

    33. Marcia Epstein says:

      This is not acceptable! The buses are impossible as it is. Some kind of protest must happen. The 104 route is too important to have this happen.

    34. Sarah says:

      How about they don’t cut M104 service until they have figured out how to conclude the never-ending horror show that is weekend 1/”2″/”3″ service? For at least two years, service has been disrupted *every* *single* *weekend* (sometimes spilling over onto weekday late nights), with absolutely no visible results, but rather only continually deteriorating service. I would be ashamed to be associated with this project. (I know that part of it is the Clark Tunnel reconstruction post-Sandy, but that certainly isn’t all of it…the Clark Tunnel isn’t north of 96th St.)

      I’m not sure how far north of 96th St. is the next accessible station, but it’s not 103, 110, or 116. A lot of older folks live in that pocket between the dreaded 96th st. line and Morningside Heights.

    35. H.Tannor says:

      The cut in 104 bus imperils the elderly and disabled- a growing numbers of travelers. It also endangers young children during school prime times. The bus is also utilized by people with food and other contents of carts. This reflects that the MTA is totally out of touch.

    36. I still love NY says:

      Used to live on the Wrst Side. Took the M104 all the time until you’d wait and wait and wait, and….I took the subway and was home in minutes. But I wanted to ride the bus! This is bad policy.

    37. Ellie says:

      THis is bullshit. I wait forever and then there are two back to back.

    38. Rita says:

      We desperately need more 104 busses, not fewer, and spaced so you are not waiting forever, as is the case these days. As more apartment buildings go up, and even more people move into the west side, it’ absolutely does NOT make sense to cut buses on this major route.
      Linda Rosenthal is totally correct. If the bus service was better it would certainly attract more riders. I would much rather take the bus then having to take an Uber out of desperation. I also miss the old route when The number 104 bus went to the east side. PLEASE Do NOT cut service on the Number 104 bus!!

    39. theb says:

      OK. And …?

    40. margaret beels says:

      service cuts on the M104 are unconscionable. the bus is heavily used by elderly and disabled people who can’t afford taxis and who aren’t eligible for subsidized transportation. has the city considered that ridership is down because such people stay home or limit their travel because the waiting time for a bus is so long and so unpredictable?

    41. West Side Elf says:

      They have got to be kidding. We need more buses not less! The handicap ridership has risen tremendously, as well as people with walkers and bringing shopping carts on these hybrid buses. They were not designed to accommodate all that, and have room for regular customers. We need buses designed more like the old days with WIDTH so people can at least pass by to get to the seats or be able to stand comfortably.
      Do any of these decision making people actually ride this line? This situation has gotten so out of hand that there should be designated buses for ONLY the handicap at this point. It takes so much longer to get uptown and not everyone can afford an Uber or Via, but those that can, do, and the young bike it. Do you blame them?
      How myopic, cavalier, misguided and downright mean these people are, not to mention the audacity to blame the public due to their lack of understanding what is happening on this bus line? Did anyone of them see the many elderly shivering at the 66th St bus stop 10:30-11:00 after Lincoln Center lets out, having just missed a 104 then having to wait 20 minutes or more for the next bus? Don’t get me started on the 7 line!
      This would be the second most ridiculous decision they will have made; the first is making the 104 a north/south bus. EVERYONE misses that route.
      Whomever makes these decisions must really look at the true reality of what’s happening to this city and not just the statistical aspect. It is happening within all industries and businesses; only the bottom line is looked at. What about the humanity factor? And you wonder why people are losing it and taking out their anger in terrible ways? What does it take to start connecting the dots?
      There are so many seniors on the UWS who forged this neighborhood when it was drug infested and riddled with crime in the 70’s and 80’s and this is how you take care of them now? Stairs are not an option for many elderly. How can the MTA be so blind to this fact and short-sighted. Many of these seniors have the money to keep Lincoln Center alive AND pay the outlandish restaurant prices on the entire UWS. Notice I didn’t say shop in stores because 90% of independent stores are gone! The next are the convenience stores. They will all be gone once their leases are up. Shame on everyone for letting the landlords keep stores vacant for years while not allowing mom and pop stores to survive.
      I digressed but there is so much wrong going on and needs to be said. I truly hope this decision is not a done deal. If it is, we should all boycott by not taking public transportation, clogging the streets with Ubers, Lyfts and the like for as long as it takes the MTA to miss the revenue and reverse this ludicrous decision.

      • L Shardloe says:

        Dear West Side Elf
        Thank you for your comments.
        The people need the bus 🚌 on Broadway
        I was so impressed with the service for ALL.
        Handicapped, shoppers, school children the PEOPLE
        We the PEOPLE
        My new, personal form of transportation.
        Sad Sad Sad
        I’m a native New Yorker, the subways used to be the fastest mode of transport
        Not now
        PLEASE do Not Cut the busses .

    42. PMae says:

      Well, I’m certainly one who gave up on the M104 for the reasons stated. And the person who mentioned the trolley? Yes! That would be a worthy project that would also attract tourists into areas outside of the typical, helping to support local businesses more.

    43. Burtnor says:

      It is just outrageous to cut M104 bus service rather than FIX it. It’s not rocket science to ensure reasonably spaced buses on a reliable schedule. If I can see the intervals between buses on the Bus Time app, the schedulers can see them and make adjustments accordingly.

      Why is it acceptable to wait 20, sometimes 30, minutes for a bus only to have 3 or 4 show up together as an empty caravan? Or else 2 or 3 in a row are “out of service.” No wonder ridership is down. Who has the time to stand out there endlessly, forced to plan an extra half hour to get down the street? Or else, in bad weather, prevented from going altogether?

      Many people can’t get up and down the subway stairs. Buses are essential.

      • dannyboy says:

        “It is just outrageous to cut M104 bus service rather than FIX it. It’s not rocket science to ensure reasonably spaced buses on a reliable schedule. If I can see the intervals between buses on the Bus Time app, the schedulers can see them and make adjustments accordingly.

        Why is it acceptable to wait 20, sometimes 30, minutes for a bus only to have 3 or 4 show up together as an empty caravan? Or else 2 or 3 in a row are ‘out of service.'”

        The bus drivers do that intentionally to avoid work.

        “No wonder ridership is down. Who has the time to stand out there endlessly, forced to plan an extra half hour to get down the street? Or else, in bad weather, prevented from going altogether?”

        The MTA does that intentionally. The more they mismanage their budget, the more cuts they will make to ridership.

        The ridership is punished for that organization’s irresponsibility and incompetence.

    44. Jan says:

      Will these cuts happen at the same time
      Subways will be closed at 72, 86, etc?
      That 104 bus will be needed then

    45. Mandy says:

      Would much rather jump on the 104 bus, which is a block away from me than having to walk blocks to the subway, especially when carrying things. However, can’t stand waiting for, often long periods, in very cold or rainy weather.
      Also, subway stations are a nightmare in the summer when it is hot and humid! You are soaked in sweat waiting for the train. We need more 104 busses, not fewer. With better service ridership will definitely improve!! Would LOVE to see the old route of going to the east side return. Maybe add special 104s, such as 4 an hour that go at least as far as Grand Central Station, as before. It is another pain, after waiting, sometimes endlessly for the 104, to then have to wait yet again for the 42nd crosstown bus when going to Grand Central Station or the east side. The 104 used to be so Wonderful!!!

    46. js says:

      The M104 is a critical route and bus transportation is a critical component of mass transportation.
      The bus is used by people of ages.
      More service is needed.
      Frequently see people give up and leave after waiting 15-20 minutes for a bus.

      BTW apparently one factor in cutting the East-west portion of the route – the Bloomberg Administration determined the eastbound bus turn and 42nd St stop interfered with situating the pedestrian plaza.
      Tourists come before real residents.🙁

      • Jay says:

        The Bloomberg administration has zero say on the bus routes. The MTA is controlled by the governor and his cronies.

        • js says:

          @Jay
          Yes the MTA is a State agency and NYC DOT a city agency. But the two agencies work together in a number of ways.
          Another example was the re-route of southbound buses from Broadway to 7th Avenue because the Bloomberg Administration wanted to (and did) create bike lanes on Broadway.
          There are numerous such examples.

          • manhattan Mark says:

            Bloomberg not only created bike lanes, he created a massive mall on Broadway from the 50’s to Times Square, slowing down the entire southbound trip of the 104 bus. I’ve taken the104 to H.S., the subway to collage ,the 104 to work and back. Both systems are in decline and only a major response. by voters of the westside can we get the NYC politico up to doing their job.

      • dannyboy says:

        “Frequently see people give up and leave after waiting 15-20 minutes for a bus.”

        This is a Feature, not a Bug.

      • Dorian says:

        Bitterly, ditto.

    47. J restino says:

      Do not. CUt 104 service! Its vital I have been using it for 25 years it is essential especially for senior citizens and those who can’t walk up and down the subway stairs

    48. NYWoman says:

      Love the M104 – when the 1, 2, and/or 3 train are down, what are we to do? Hitchhike? How about the handicapped? This is the only mode of AFFORDABLE transportation with people with disabilities, or just too old to negotiate subway stairs.

    49. I have waited at least 20 minuets or more on 8th Ave. & 50th St. for a 104 Bus during the very cold &!windy weather! Cuting service would be an affront on the human being!! Be kind!

    50. Betty Williams says:

      We used to have wonderful M104 bus service!!!
      It used to be so nice to be able to ride downtown and then crosstown at 42nd St – and then return!! Service up and down Broadway was very good, with buses coming frequently. They have now cut service so drastically, that it is no longer practical to ride the M104!! Now you say you are going to cut more service!!

    51. Dorian says:

      When the bus route stopped going all the way east, I bailed going to the East Side. Probably a lot of other people, too. I also have switched to the subway to go up and down unless I have a LOT of time and the weather is okay. A shame.

    52. js says:

      Curious if anyone knows….

      How does the MTA factor the following in its ridership data?

      non-paying riders – i.e. young children.

      lack of access to buses when buses are rerouted for “charity” bikes and walks, street “fairs” and parades. Bus rerouting occurs nearly every weekend April- October

    53. Lynn Shardlow says:

      Oh nooooo. The bus was more reliable than the subway
      And safer and if it stopped, one could get off it.
      You know where you are and what’s happening.

      Unlike the subways , which are deteriorating, you don’t know why it stopped or when it will start….

      This is a revolting development.
      Imma

    54. Alan Flacks says:

      1.) Assembly Member Linda Beth Rosenthal is spot on the mark. Death by a thousand cuts ’tis! One wonders about the IQ level of OUR public servants at the M.T.A. They shouldn’t be allowed to continue to work there because they just do not “get” it. From them up to Board members (with a few notable exceptions such as Board member Andrew Albert, who had told me that buses cannot continue to be cut), they are incompetent. Congress-maven Jerrold Nadler has twice said “The management of the Transit Authority are idiots.” [And he further explained their lack of concern for their riders.] 2.) Readers: Are you aware that last century the M104 schedule on the “guide-a-ride” did not list times, but said “Frequent Service” during most of the daytime weekdays with an explanation at the bottom that it means “Every five minutes or less.”!!! Reader David Morris and I remember. 3.) Obviously, more service attracts more riders (London, under “Red” Ken Livingston, showed that). “Dollar vans” operate in many areas of the “Outer Boroughs.” Why not have them along B’way? [True, they deprive the M.T.A. of revenue.] What about smaller buses which carry about one half as many passengers and run outside rush hour and frequently (L.A. & London “Hoppers” do that)? 4.) Remember Cuomo fils wants to be re-elected Gov, aiming to be President, and he runs the M.T.A. (and ran poorly H.U.D.). Why vote for him? Finally, 5.) What is the most frequent bus destination City-wide? “Not in Service”! Cheers!

    55. Hope says:

      I use this bus very frequently on the weekend when they cut/change the subways uptown due to construction. If anything they should ADD a bus an hour!

      • AlanFlacks says:

        D’accord. Bottom line: There is not enough service on this and most bus lines in the five boroughs. Since 1961, bus service has been reduced on the average of 72%–one has to wait three times as long for an omnibus to-day.

    56. Candy says:

      We were recently waiting at a stop for the 104. The bus came. looked at us, and speeded past. Not Out of Service. There was another bus close behind but according to the driver, that driver does this! Should that be reported? This just adds to the frustration.

      • dannyboy says:

        That driver was taking advantage of you AND the following driver.

        Report him. The MTA does take complaints seriously if they are about a bus driver being taken advantage. (But not so much if it is a passenger being taken advantage; that’s just BAU.)