The Archdiocese has decided to close St. Gregory the Great school on 90th Street between Amsterdam and Columbus Avenues at the end of this school year, part of a plan to close underutilized parishes.
“Despite the Archdiocese’s best efforts to maintain the operational and financial viability of the school in light of the closure of their co-located parish, continuing to educate students in a school where a significant portion of the facility is unutilized has proven infeasible,” the archdiocese said on a website about the closure.
The local parish is one of six in the New York area that have seen a decline in parishioners and will have to close. The church did not want to operate the school without a fully operating parish.
“It is the praxis of the Church in the United States, except some significant exceptions, for instance, a school run by a religious order, that a school should not operate independent of a parish church and office,” the church explained on its site.
The church says on the website that all current students will be given a space at another Catholic school , including the Ascension school at 220 West 108th Street.
I feel so sorry for the impoverished Catholic church in that they can’t keep their schools operating.
I mean, I know they have lots of fabulous cathedrals and art collections around the world. But apparently their riches are for display and not for children.
Many Catholic or affiliated institutions have one common problem; staffing.
In case you’ve not noticed there aren’t as many priests, brothers, monks, nuns and sisters as there once was; this is important because all those religious once provided a bulk of the staff for schools, hospitals and whatever else.
In nearly all cases Catholic hospitals, schools, colleges, universities were founded by religious orders whose members provided staffing, and or and order was “invited” by local archbishop to start/staff same.
Either way such “dedicated servants” provided (to put it bluntly) low cost staff.
Dedicated servants are normally compensated one of two ways; they are paid a wage which is promptly turned over to their order minus perhaps a small amount for “expenses”. Or, the full amount is paid directly to the order straight out. In any event since the order normally is the one who provided healthcare, pension, and so forth it could be argued the sisters and brothers didn’t need “high wages”.
Fast forward to the post Vatican II world where religious vocations have been dropping off a cliff; places have to hire lay personnel. To attract the best it is going to cost money.
Long before Saint Vincent’s and other Catholic hospitals closed in NYC the only sisters you were likely to see were in administration. Nurses and other staff were entirely lay people.
Catholic schools are no different. Whereas many of us late as the 1970’s or 1980’s recall schools with teaching staff almost wholly made up of sisters or brothers, that is pretty much over in many places. It is all lay persons. Again where you do find a religious it usually is in supervisory/administrative posts.
The other issue with Catholic schools is as mentioned already; many of the students come from families that cannot pay full or even reduced tuition. In the past the archdiocese was making up these short falls; but that has ended. Parishes were told that unless they could fully fund and support their churches and or schools there would be closures and or mergers.
Catholic churches in particular are being hit by the shortage of priests. Long story without a huge influx of new vocations (highly unlikely), all over the USA churches are closing or merging to spread what priests there are around.
Roman Catholic Church in NYC was established and grew based upon the vast numbers of Irish, French, German, Polish, Italian, and other European immigrants. Many parishes thrived because of high birth rates meant also a steady supply of children for schools, and also kept population levels stable. Then things began to change.
Kennedy immigration “reform” slowed if not stopped Europeans from coming to the USA and the focus was shifted to Asia, Mexico and other countries deemed with “under represented” immigrant/population numbers such as those from the African countries.
White flight out of the City to the suburbs began in the 1950’s and Catholics were no exception.
Last but not least the growth of “cafeteria Catholics” meant many of that faith no longer felt obligated to attend Mass regularly, send their kids to Catholic schools, use hospitals and other services provided by the Church.
All over Manhattan and some other parts of NYC you had Catholic churches/parishes seriously overlapping in areas. A French Catholic church a few blocks from a Polish. An Italian parish in or near one for Irish, and so it went.
Fast forward to modern times the Church is faced with dwindling numbers in many parishes, and or those who do attend services regularly and or send their children to parochial schools cannot afford much including tuition payments. Catholic schools in particular in many cases now are full of students who aren’t necessarily of that faith and whose families cannot afford the full tuition. In past ways were found to cover those students and raise funds, but again with dwindling congregants that has become difficult.
In past many parents chose Catholic schools (even if they weren’t of that faith) as a lower cost but often excellent choice for a “private” school. The rise of charter schools (which are free) has cut into those enrollment numbers.
Many forget or don’t know just how Catholic many areas of Manhattan once were; Little Italy, Tribeca up through West Village, Chelsea, and Hell’s Kitchen once was full of Irish and Italian (among other nationalities) Catholics. Ditto for large parts of the LES up through East Village.
One of reasons the nuns put Saint Vincent’s hospital on 12th Street and Seventh was to serve the often working class to poor Irish and Italian surrounding communities.
Fact that the NYC Archdiocese along with a good slice of local residents allowed Saint Vincent’s to close speaks volumes about the state of Catholic Church in NYC.
You are incorrect. The cathedrals are gorgeous but are a huge cash drain. Art collections also bleed cash.
Renovating St Patrick’s cost $150MM by itself.
It is very unfortunate that the school is closing, but when was the last time that you donated to a Catholic school?
So you really think that tax-exempt cathedrals in the US and government-subsidized cathedrals around the world, in addition to the Vatican City (perhaps you haven’t visited) aren’t examples of extraordinary wealth?
I guess they thrive on the gullibility of the faithful.
And I’ve never donated money to anything Catholic. They don’t need my money and I am not part of that religion.
Don’t want your money pal. Maybe you should stick to comments about your own religion, whatever that may be.
Dan – sorry you don’t appreciate the First Amendment and the concept of free speech.
If you’re that sensitive to comments about your religion, perhaps the problem is with that religion or your relationship to it.
Otherwise, buck up or find some safe space to hide away.
Last time one looked the Jehovah Witnesses were making a *huge* bundle selling off property in Brooklyn.
Also correct me if am wrong but didn’t at least one Jewish synagogue sell up taking advantage of real estate values?
Trinity Church is one of the largest landowners if New York City (estimated worth of 2 billion on 14 acres of land), and that is set to increase: https://ny.curbed.com/2013/4/25/10250312/parishioners-protest-trinity-churchs-real-estate-deals
IIRC one or more synagogues in NYC have sold or are considering selling their property to raise much needed ready money.
New York City like much of the United States is becoming an increasingly atheist society. As such the various religious houses of worship, schools and other properties are becoming surplus to requirements.
Long story short basically all faiths in NYC either are sitting upon wealth (land and or real estate), or have valuable property that can be converted into money. So leave us not pick on just the Catholic church.
You must have missed the last paragraph:
“all current students will be given a space at another Catholic school , including the Ascension school at 220 West 108th Street”
No need to liquidate any Michaelangelos just yet.
You must have missed the last 30 years.
The Catholic church has been closing schools for a very long time because of funding issues.
This is what happens when societies become more secular. Maybe those kids could be serviced by a charter school?
Funny you should mention that:
https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/city-hall/story/2015/07/facing-decline-catholic-schools-form-a-charter-like-network-023857
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Catholic-Schools-Study-Charter-Schools-for-Ideas-318857291.html
Didn’t want to go there, and will be tactful as possible but… Problem many Catholic schools are facing is not just secularism of parents/families but that many of the children who do attend aren’t Catholic.
In many cases outside of a few parishes a majority of students at Catholic schools are Latino-Hispanic, African-American or other minorities, and often lower income.
For years as the community around parishes changed, going from mostly or majority White European descent Catholic to various minorities those families often chose parochial schools as a low cost (relatively) option for private instead of the local public school . Charter schools have changed that equation. Now lower income parents can get their kids quality education that is free.
Even at schools like Convent of Sacred Heart or St. Regis that serve middle to upper class families you still have a large student population that is not Catholic.
Catholic church in both New York and elsewhere has been active in pushing for a federal and or local tax deduction for primary education. So far in NY it hasn’t happened.
Charter schools are often in new buildings and or carved out of other spaces but have new equipment/supplies. OTOH many Catholic schools are in buildings anywhere from fifty to nearly one hundred years old. As such they are out dated, and often in need of repair and modernization. But parishes often do not have the money nor does the archdiocese.
https://www.insidesources.com/catholic-schooling-ropes-archdiocese-ny-closes-schools/
Oops, Mark
@March 👍
what about the preK, they are on the city’s website for a 50 seat pre-k operation.
Schools are overcrowded in this city…I thought the same was true for Catholic schools. Why does this one have trouble enrolling students? The Catholic school on West 71 is packed. What gives? Are they planning on selling it like they did with St. Agnes School for Boys.
It really all comes down to the local parish and church when it comes to a Catholic school. Those in areas where there is active and strong support (including financial) from parishioners often are doing well. There are parishes in areas of Staten Island, Brooklyn and Queens where both at Mass attendance and the school they are bursting at the seams.
Blessed Sacrament (West 71st Street) seems to have one of those “active” parishes. Considered rather liberal by some more conservative Catholics, the school reflects the same values in terms of “diversity” with strong values. In short the school reflect what you pretty much would want/expect for one located on the UWS.
Blessed Sacrament school provides an excellent and affordable option to other private schools in the area/Manhattan.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/school-of-the-blessed-sacrament-new-york
Hey guys they have lobbyists to fund! They see a resurgence in a push for a theocracy and the leaders in red satin or silk want to get in line. Our beloved Cardinal/Bishop is already in line to get his piece of the development pie in NYC.. schools and churches are so old school. Politics and government is what they want.
End religious tax exemptions and privileges now!
“Paranoia strikes deep”. Seems obvious to say, but the views here expressed are so “pedestrian”.
I think me smells luxury housing
Nah. The sale of the real estate will be used to buy property in South Beach that can be used as a retreat for the priests.
Why do I smell a real-estate deal in the making?
Why not? The Church just sold off Saint Vincent’s de Paul on 23rd street in Chelsea.
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20161117/chelsea/jeffrey-dagowitz-buys-church-of-st-vincent-de-paul
Now both the hospital and church, quite gone.
If the lot next door to the school which is currently Saint Gregory’s playground is owned by the Church, then the devil certainly will be a knocking at their front door.
Just think of what the two lots, one of them “empty” (of development, not use) would bring in this current RS market.
Heard a rumour that the real estate is for sale and there are plans to use the proceeds to buy the Versace mansion in South Beach for a priests’ retreat house.
Are the playground and basketball court next to the school owned by the school or are those city owned? My kids used to love to go there.
St. Gregory the Great, church, school and rectory was established in 1912 to accommodate the large influx of Irish Catholics inhabiting the recently constructed tenements between Columbus and Amsterdam Aves. Prior to St. Gregorys, a stable occupied the site which was readily converted to its present use, providing educational and religious services for over a century.
In 1919 when Éamon de Valera, came to the US seeking funds and recognition for the emerging Irish Republic, he often stayed in the rectory. In later years, when the Berrigan brothers were the subject of a FBI manhunt, they took refuge in the rectory and were not given up by the pastor.
Babe Ruth was married in the church and lived on West End Ave., many other notables may also have been students or parishioners, however, their names are immaterial at this time but what is important, the St. Gregory’s community has make a positive impact on the Westside for well over a century.
I graduated from the St Gregory’s School 65 years ago and have nothing but fond memories of the church and school.
Saint Gregory’s park seems to be owned by NYC.
“St. Gregory’s Park lies on West 90th Street, nestled between the West Side Community Garden and St Gregory’s Church. The property faces the Stephen Wise Houses. Stephen S. Wise (1874-1949), a Jewish Hungarian immigrant, first became well known in 1929 for his efforts to reform Mayor James J. Walker’s (1881-1946, mayor 1926-32) shady administration. Beginning in 1938, he helped lead the Zionist movement in the United States, and is considered one of the county’s greatest Jewish leaders of the period between the wars.
Until 1993, St. Gregory’s Park was the site of a demolished tenement and a neighborhood dumping ground. That year the Department of Housing Preservation and Development (HPD) acquired the land and allowed the Open Space Greening Program to begin construction of a park. Open Space is a subdivision of the Council on the Environment of New York City, a citizens’ organization in the Mayor’s Office that was founded in 1970 to promote environmental awareness and find solutions to environmental problems. St. Gregory’s School, which had shown an interest in the property, agreed to maintain the park in return for Open Space’s services in constructing the playground.
Though the property was transferred to Parks in 1997 it still serves as a playground for St. Gregory’s School. The site contains a basketball court and play equipment with safety surfacing. Benches provide a place to sit, and trees provide shade.”
https://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/st-gregorys-playground/history
Upshot resembles something out of “The Bells Of Saint Mary’s”. Saint Gregory’s seems to have wanted the property but the City go to it first, however in exchange for open services the school got a playground regardless.
Long story short that playground property isn’t in any danger of being part of any real estate deal involving Saint Gregory’s school. At least not now, in future who knows.
Thanks – that is helpful. But a smart real estate developer could go to the church for their land and the city for the playground (Mayor Bill loves a deal!) and have a great big parcel to build on.
Yes, BdeB and city council have been grabbing public gardens/parks for redevelopment into “affordable” housing.
So it is not out of the question if a developer got their mitts on the church and school they would work out a deal for the playground in exchange for *something*. Again with BdeB seemingly intent on shoving affordable housing everywhere…
Again if they sold off and redeveloped Saint Vincent’s hospital, all bets are off.
Well, centuries of rampant and condoned pedophilia–and the subsequent hush money and fines paid out have drained the coffers quite a bit.
Just so people know the archdiocese of New York has a huge warehouse out on Staten Island where objects from closed churches are sent. Much of what was in Saint Vincent de Paul in Chelsea has already been sent.
Some things are moved on, others are sitting and likely will do so long after most of us are long gone from this earth.
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/nyregion/for-relics-from-closed-churches-an-afterlife-in-staten-island.html
Almost every archdiocese has a similar storage facility today.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/25/forgotten-religious-relic-rediscovered-in-new-york.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/04/realestate/in-the-region-westchester-in-yonkers-an-archive-for-new-york-archdiocese.html
This and or another church or religious affiliated institution will take possession. The chapel from Saint Vincent’s hospital was dismantled and taken to Catholic hospital in New Jersey IIRC before the property was demolished.
As for rare artwork, gold, jewels and whatever “riches”, think you’ll find very little of that in NYC archdiocese churches, schools or whatever buildings. The most valuable thing often is the land they sit upon.