CHANTING ‘MAKES NO SENSE’, LINCOLN TOWERS RESIDENTS FIGHT SCHOOL REZONING PLAN


State Senator Brad Hoylman speaks at a rally Saturday to fight the Department of Education’s school rezoning plan. Photo by Anthony Ferrara.

By Anthony Ferrara

Local politicians rallied a large crowd at Lincoln Towers on Saturday morning against a plan to rezone Upper West Side schools that would split up buildings in the Lincoln Towers complex.

Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal, State Senator Brad Hoylman, and Robert Gottheim from Congressman Jerry Nadler’s office stood with approximately 150 tenants of Lincoln Towers to voice their dissent at District 3’s proposed zoning lines, which would split the towers between schools PS 199 & 191. The complex stretches from 66th to 70th Street off of West End Avenue. It was built as a middle class enclave in the 60’s, but apartments there now routinely sell for over $1 million.

The Department of Education is rezoning Upper West Side schools to ease overcrowding at popular schools like 199 on 70th Street and add diversity to a district that’s increasingly divided along racial lines. A school board vote could come as early as late October.

The opponents’ main complaint was that the department did not see Lincoln Towers as a community, but as just another set of buildings to be split up as so many pieces in a Lego set. “It would be puzzling that the DOE would draw these two buildings (165 & 185 West End Ave) out of the school zone, while 150 & 170 would be left in,” Rosenthal said. She also found it “insulting” that 200 Amsterdam Avenue (a new tower set to be built at 69th and Amsterdam) will be in the school zone, while 165 and 185 WEA will not.

State Senator Hoylman fed the crowd with more energy, shouting “why would you divide a community that has had the same shared history, going back 70 years, and arbitrarily draw a line through a playground & tell the child on the other side, that you can’t see your friend at school?” This charged up the crowd, with a raucous chant of “MAKES NO SENSE, MAKES NO SENSE!” The senator also stated that while “this re-zoning is about overcrowding, it is a political charade. The fact of the matter is that this re-zoning will only affect 6 children!” The crowd again shouted “MAKES NO SENSE” for the next 30 seconds or so.

The most impassioned plea was from tenant Robert Gonsalves, who had moved to Lincoln Towers seven years ago to be part of a “community.” He said that his oldest son is autistic and is in the 2nd grade. He has been able to stay with his class at 199 & wants to continue to be a part of a school that has nurtured him & helped him for the past three years. He pleaded to the school board, to “please keep him with his Lincoln Towers friends, otherwise all his progress will be for naught.” (Gonsalves’ child would be able to stay at 199 regardless of the zoning lines. All students currently enrolled at a school would get to stay at the school under the rezoning plan; it would only affect children starting Kindergarten in 2017 or afterward.)

Noticeably absent: tenants or stakeholders from PS 191. That school, which mostly educates students from the Amsterdam Houses projects, would also see its buildings split up under the current zoning plan. Test scores are lower at PS 191 and the school previously was on a “persistently dangerous” list, but was taken off the list this year. The city is trying to add diversity to the Southern portion of the neighborhood, whose schools are divided along racial lines. With parents in several other nearby buildings also complaining about the prospect of sending their children to PS 191, the city’s task could get more complicated.

The next meeting on this issue is Wednesday, September 28 at 6:30 at PS 166, 132 West 89th Street. Apparently, parents will get to see the department’s mysterious third rezoning option at that meeting.

Fun fact: Students from Lincoln Towers once attended both PS 191 and PS 199 – the schools were “paired” so that students went to one school for early grades and the other for later grades. We are researching why this arrangement fell apart. If you have any information, please contact westsiderag at gmail.com.

NEWS, SCHOOLS | 65 comments | permalink
    1. helen must go says:

      Helen Rosenthal notably absent…

      Think about that come election day.

      • Beth says:

        To the contrary, I’m impressed that Helen Rosenthal was not there. The politicians who attended this rally look pathetic jumping on that whiners bandwagon.

        • One Community says:

          I agree with Beth. I think it is deplorable that we should suggest that NYCHA should be split up but not Lincoln Towers. It sends the message that one community is so bad that they need to be taken down, but the other one is so good that it should be rewarded with special favor.

          The vast majority of families who are planning to send their kids to P.S. 199 have recently paid up to 1.6 million dollars for 2 br apartments, and over 2 million for 3 br apartments. The large one bedrooms are now going for 900k.

          Stop talking about Lincoln Towers’ historical middle class role and legacy at P.S. 199. This is no longer a middle class enclave that needs special protection. These families are very wealthy – they had the 300k to 400k down payment necessary to buy that supposed legacy (LT requires 30% down).

          The news has also failed to mention the issue that their shared park is part of an exclusionary gated community – only LT residents have the I.D. to get in.

          The protesters say 6 kids is not much. However in a class of 75 (the new building is supposed to have 3 classes per grade), 6 is a lot. These two buildings alone represent 8 % of the future population of the school.

          The Lincoln Towers protest sends the message that P.S. 191 in the brand new community is not a viable option. I disagree. We have an unprecedented opportunity with the shared distribution of diversity among three schools and the shifting of 7 giant buildings into the P.S. 191 zone. The problem is not the P.S. 191 community. The problem is the folks that refuse to support it.

          The DOE’s proposal is historical. It is the first time that they have publicly recognized segregation as a problem and diversity in zoning as a solution. This is fully in line with the City Council’s passing of the School Diversity Accountability Act http://bradlander.nyc/news/updates/city-council-passes-school-diversity-accountability-act

          Let’s stop perpetuating exclusionary barriers to equitable education and think like one larger community – not separate (and in some case gated) enclaves of haves and have nots.

          • dannyboy says:

            Now, if we could get this Zoning implemented AND Helen to go…

            Something for all you commenting on this thread…now that’d be progress!

      • Cato says:

        Why would you expect Helen Rosenthal to have been there?

        Was there an automobile accident on a street corner? That appears to be her understanding of her role as our city council representative.

        And it’s not like she could bring any practical knowledge of the public schools to the conversation, having chosen to send her own kids to private schools. Nor, for the same reason, can she appreciate the urgency of parents’ concerns about which school their kids will be required to attend.

      • Carl Korner says:

        Helen R is awful

    2. dannyboy says:

      “Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal, State Senator Brad Hoylman, and Robert Gottheim from Congressman Jerry Nadler’s office stood with approximately 150 tenants of Lincoln Towers”

      guess that represents lots of votes, campaign contributions, social contacts, job prospects,future business, money…

    3. Mike says:

      MAKES NO SENSE, MAKES NO SENSE!

    4. Brandon says:

      She also found it “insulting” that 200 Amsterdam Avenue (a new tower set to be built at 69th and Amsterdam) will be in the school zone. What is the DOE to do, draw lines around this new building and send those kids….where? The building would be an island in the middle of a school zone. Sorry, but as long as big building are built schools will have to adapt to serve the children who live in D3. All the children — rich ones in new towers, poor ones in Amsterdam Houses, and those in the middle.

      • Anon says:

        Perhaps the same way the DOE used arbitrary zoning lines to carve out Lincoln Towers. Did you look at the proposed map? The DOE can draw lines and include/exclude buildings wherever it wants. Don’t you find it strange that new luxury high rises that are farther away and probably have more kids than the two Lincoln Towers buildings that were excluded are included in the new zone?? Perhaps the politicians who spoke Saturday were speaking out against the unfairness directed at buildings with a fifty year history with PS199.

        • Sarge says:

          The zoning line goes right up West End Ave with buildings to the west being zoned to the new school building that is also on WEA. Doesn’t seem arbitrary to me.

      • dannyboy says:

        “will have to adapt to serve the children who live in D3. All the children — rich ones in new towers, poor ones in Amsterdam Houses, and those in the middle.”

        yes! Let’s keep money out of Education policy

    5. Juan says:

      I’m not totally clear why people from PS 191 would have thought to attend this rally. What I am clear on is that I have heard nothing from current PS 191 families in general about the proposals. Many people are arguing that the students at PS 191 “deserve” a better education. Yes, they do, but they also need to advocate for themselves some rather than let others do it for them.

      • anon says:

        IDA That the 191 families need to advocate for themselves. That would be great but if they don’t that doesn’t mean the kids deserve sup-par schools. Public education exists to give all children a decent education. Government should worry most about those least able to advocate for themselves. The students at PS 191 are exactly who the DOE should be most concerned with. The kids who live in Lincoln Towers will be fine because their parents have the means to see that they are.

        • Michael says:

          That is precisely the attitude that got the area into the problem it now has. It has long been understood that when the Trump buildings were built a proposal was made to build a new school that could serve the increased capacity requirements. Instead, the Bloomberg administration denied that proposal with the belief that “those people” would be rich enough to send their kids to private school.

          The community is not solely filled with the uber-wealthy, and one need not live in the projects to be far out of the median of the income range of the area. The problems of the schools won’t be fixed by simply shuffling kids around from one building to another, but by a DOE that expects nothing but excellence within its walls, coupled with an understanding from parents that particularly in elementary school, their engagement and oversight is critical to the success of their schools and their children as they progress through them.

      • Beth says:

        That’s easy to say from your privileged perspective. Affluent, educated people assume advocacy is a right, poor people of color do not.

    6. Get real LT says:

      It was mentioned in a previous article, but it is interesting that no one seemed to blink at breaking up the community at the Amsterdam houses.

      I would have more sympathy for Lincoln Towers if there arguments weren’t post-hoc justifications to maintain the status quo.

      So, their sense of community hinges on ps 199? What about all of their tennent only amenities? Couldn’t their playground or common spaces serve that function. What about children who live there who attend private schools (for religious or other purposes)? Are they not integrated into the community bc they don’t attend 199. What about children older than 5th grade. Is the fabric of the community torn as they enter 6th? Or younger children pre-k and under.

      The fact that you can physically see a school. Or walk past it shouldn’t necessarily be a sole determinate of zoning lines.

      There may be reasons to or not to rezone, but what is being argued here seems purely self-serving. Their sense of “fairness” it totally seen in a vacuum or bubble.

      The rich history? While there might be some exceptions, I would imagine that a vast majority of the families with young kids (k-5) are recent entrants to LT. What ties 199 and LT may have had 40+ years ago should not dictate the right of a family who moved in 5 years or 5 months ago (granted there are some families that may be multigenerational). I would imagine that is the exception.

      Also, for those families that have moved in with the past 10 years. Let’s be honest. The portrayal of this middle class enclave that was LT a generation ago and may still describe the seniors residing today, is not an accurate reflection of the families there today. I know well of families who did not have bids on apartments taken seriously there. 2 bedrooms can run close to million in some cases.

      Again, I’m not saying the redrawing is good/bad fair/unfair, but the portrayal of those in LT of the situation is not deemed in the realism of 2016.

      And the fact that you invested in apartment is not a legit reason. That logic can be applied to anyone in any building. That would be a case for never changing things ever.

      • This is obscene says:

        Calling all the good middle class families of the Upper West Side… There is currently a fire sale going on at 165 WEA and 185 WEA!

        You can now have the privilege of squeezing into a 1 bedroom apartment listed at 185 for the bargain basement price of 1.025 million dollars! Sorry no multi-bedroom apartments currently for sale there.

        http://streeteasy.com/building/lincoln-towers-185-west-end-avenue-new_york

        At 165 WEA the only current multi-bedroom offerings are. Since you are middle class, it will be no problem getting the 30% downpayment you need for these babies (600k+)
        a) a 3 bedroom for 2.28 million,
        b) a 3 br for 2.2 million
        c) 3 br for 2.1 million

        http://streeteasy.com/building/lincoln-towers-165-west-end-avenue-new_york

        The last three multi-bedroom apartments sold at 165 WEA were 2 bedroom apartments at 1.495, 1.45 and 1.4 million dollars (all in 2015).
        http://streeteasy.com/building/lincoln-towers-165-west-end-avenue-new_york#tab_building_detail=2

        The last two multi-bedroom apartments sold at 185 WEA were:
        1) a 3br bedroom for 2.4 million
        2) a 2br for 1.389 million and
        3) a 3 bedroom for 2.35 million.

        http://streeteasy.com/building/lincoln-towers-185-west-end-avenue-new_york#tab_building_detail=2

        • Sherman says:

          The last time I checked this is called supply and demand.

          If people are willing to pay these prices then this is what these apartments are worth.

          If families are unwilling or unable to pay these prices they can move to The Bronx.

          • This is obscene says:

            Sherman, your disdain for anyone who cannot pay 1.4 to 2.3 million dollars for an apartment in 165 WEA or 185 WEA speaks volumes.

            The issue is whether the upper class people buying these apartments need special favor – not whether middle class people should have a place in our community or not (Though I see you would rather they move to the Bronx).

            If the values of the apartments at 165 WEA and 185 WEA go down 10% for a few years until people figure out that going to an integrated school in a gorgeous new building isn’t something to run away from – then too bad. That’s supply vs. demand.

            And isn’t that really what their argument is all about? Preserving property values. That’s why the majority of people in their group are not parents of children, but retirees. DNA info reported just last week an elderly member of LT was nearly ejected by police from a zoning meeting. My understanding is that he claimed to speak for the members of the protest. Like your comment, his (view the video) is very telling too.

            https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20160920/upper-west-side/video-man-nearly-ejected-from-uws-school-zoning-meeting-after-outburst

        • J.S.P. says:

          So glad that Rosenthal and company are protecting the rights of the members of this “middle class” community to live to their gated / entitled lives.

    7. NP says:

      I appreciate the sentiment of the Lincoln Tower families. Let’s also not forget that there are other equally, if not more ridiculous, lines in the DOE’s plan. The residents of West 68th Street – of which I am one – have their street chopped up every which way. Now in 199, portions of that street could end up in three zones. These are primarily smaller buildings who don’t have the draw of hundreds of tenants like Lincoln Towers does. As such, their voices aren’t being heard. Keep the neighborhood together, rather than chopping up a street so the kids who live on the north side go to school with those on the south…of the very same street!

    8. Juan says:

      To clarify, I am not saying that current ps 191 families should be denied an improved education because they are being silent. I just think that they need to speak up and say what they want rather than having everyone else tell them what is best for them. Do they want to be in a new building? Do they want k-5 or k-8? Do they want to be blended with 199 in some way? Maybe they want nothing to do with these Lincoln Towers families who don’t seem to want to have much to do with them? Different options will impact them in different ways.

    9. Sherman says:

      Why is Hoylman saying that the LT community goes back “70 years”?

      Lincoln Towers was built in the early 1960s. According to my calculations this was not 70 years ago.

    10. Greg Lemond says:

      Wow, the DOE does not see Lincoln Towers as a community? That has got to be the lamest, most random excuse Ive ever heard. Like anyone gives a shit about anyone else living there. going back 70 years!?! Less than 10% of residents at Lincoln Towers have been there anywhere near that long. Please!

      They found it “insulting” that 200 Amsterdam Avenue (a new tower set to be built at 69th and Amsterdam) will be in the school zone, while 165 and 185 WEA will not? Since when did God grant 165 and 185 WEA endless access to PS199? So its ok, more than ok, it’s God’s law that 165 and 185 WEA are zoned for PS199, but not 200 Amsterdam Avenue. That is fine. But not the other way around.

      PS199 is a shit show, has been for almost a decade now. The administration has been terrible, most of the good teachers have left, the overcrowding is insane, the facilities are in dire need of repair, kids are having lunch at 11am…and the test scores are nothing to write home about.

      • Sherman says:

        What alternate universe do you live in?

        PS199 is a great school with a great community.

        All of my kid’s teachers have been outstanding.

    11. Cato says:

      Why not make the proposed changes effective in five years?

      That way those who bought homes in what is now the 199 catchment will not be robbed of the investment they made. (Like it or not, the accessibility of a desirable school factors into the cost of a new home. Those high-priced apartments in once-middle-class Lincoln Towers became that expensive, at least in part, because they included access to a known high-quality public school.)

      And those who *will* be affected by the change in zoning will have plenty of advance notice and the ability to evaluate where they want to live.

      This will also give the City time to devote resources to raise the quality of PS 191 services so that, by the time the re-zoning happens, there will be less resistance (and certainly less *legitimate* reason for resistance).

      So much of the current controversy seems to have to do with the “Gotcha!” nature of the proposed changes. If that element can be removed, perhaps everybody can be satisfied.

      • dannyboy says:

        Holding Public School policy decisions hostage to apartment resale prices is not how this works.

        i think

    12. W.L says:

      There is a lot of talk about not breaking up a community, but many of the families whose children attend PS 166 live nowhere near the school. I personally know 4 individuals that rented or appeared to rent an apartment in the zone before their child entered kindergarten to attend 199. (They should be at PS 163 or PS 75). Then in first grade they moved back to the upper 90s to the apartment they subletted for a year. If the DOE actually verified or required people to live in the zone for more than one year, this whole discussion and controversy would be mute Less overcrowding, and “fair” school zone lines are drawn for the people who actually reside and invest in the neighborhood. Every other city I have loved in requires a student must ALWAYS live in the zone of the school they are attending.

      • Anon says:

        The DOE’s rule is that you have to love in zone the first day you attend a school. After that you can move anywhere in the 5 boroughs and still stay in that school until the terminating grade. This rule is important because so many NYC kids have unstable home lives. If they are being sent to a live with a relative, a foster family, a shelter, or simply a new apartment we shouldn’t add to their stress by ripping them away from their school and friends. Do UMC people use this rule to get into the school they want and then move to a cheaper neighborhood? Yes but all things considered it is a good rule.

        • Juan says:

          I used to get very upset knowing that there were a number of kids at my child’s school that exploited the system (such as by using short term rentals in a good zone) to their benefit. If members of the DOE visited each family at their alleged home on the first day of school, cheaters could easily be ratted out – four upper middle class people would not realistically be crammed into a small studio. But as much as this frustrated me, I realized that this likely is not the best use of the DOE’s extremely limited resources. I would rather they spend money in the classrooms than on people to go around knocking on doors. Let these families have to live with having their five year olds lie about where they live.

      • dannyboy says:

        “If the DOE actually verified or required people to live in the zone for more than one year, this whole discussion and controversy would be mute”

        Found another group to scapegoat for this whole discussion and controversy?

        This is getting very ludicrous.

    13. Richard says:

      Unfortunately, it’s a free education at a public school, so the boro/city/etc. can make any rules they want. If want your kids to go to a specific school, you need to pay for it.

    14. FN says:

      Why are we trying to mix schools in the first place? Everyone knows that underperforming schools have nothing to do with money or the quality of teaching. Do we really think that PS191 was designated second most or first most dangerous school in Manhattan because of the teachers or lack of a robust PTA? Can someone please articulate the reasoning behind these rezoning efforts?

      As for the line cutting Lincoln Towers in pieces for PS199 zoning purposes, everyone knows that that is not only insanity, but actually might amount to passive aggressive.

      But let’s face it: the folks, or most the folks at Lincoln Towers deserve it. They love to consider themselves liberal upper west siders, don’t they, for the most part? Didn’t the likes of Lincoln Towers elect diblasio? It’s easy to vote for a liberal like diblasio when it doesn’t really effect you, right? Well now they can see and feel diblasio right from their own apartment balconies. Gotta love it.

      • an says:

        The reason for the rezoning are:

        some schools are bursting at the seems while others have space available

        a new school building on WEA will be ready for students Sept 2017

        while we rezone to fix the above problems we can also address the inequality in these schools that is in large part based on some PTAs being able to raise over $1M/year to fund assistant teachers, music, art, and even science while other schools only raise tens of thousands.

        • Juan says:

          Fair enough. I am trying to wrap my arms around calls to diversify the schools and break up the wealth at PS 199 so that it is shared with other schools with the other calls saying that breaking up Amsterdam Houses is a horrible thing. You can’t have your cake and eat it too – if you want to have a significant block of wealthier families to finance the “extras” that make the other schools so good, you can’t have a large block of poorer families there too – the math just doesn’t work. And guess what – if you do have that large of a block of poorer families, the wealthier families that are supposed to fill out the rest of the school aren’t going to show up, and we will be back where we started…

          • dannyboy says:

            “the wealthier families that are supposed to fill out the rest of the school aren’t going to show up, and we will be back where we started…”

            that’s why rezoning is a continuous process.

          • anon says:

            The math works out better than you imply because PS 191 is a much smaller school than PS 199. There are only 70-80 kids per grade whereas PS 199 is twice as large. The new school on WEA would have capacity to be the size of PS 199 so splitting the PS 191 kids between the three school would mean only about 1/6 of each grade would be families that would have been zoned for PS 191. This isn’t a large swath. There will still be plenty of UMC families to fund special projects. I understand the “white flight” concept but all of the families won’t be able to move or find a private school for their kids by next Sept. A substantial number will remain in the school they are assigned. They will see that this relatively small number of 5 year olds in their child’s kindergarten don’t harm them in any way.

            • anon says:

              my numbers are off above. PS 191 has about 40 students per grade. The proportions are correct.

            • Juan says:

              I apologize for attributing a statement to you that you didn’t make – my comment was directed at those who insist on keeping Amsterdam Houses together at one school. This is where the numbers don’t work. I have no problem splitting them out – I think that is likely the best solution. My one concern about this (and I admittedly am not well educated on this nuance) is that I believe that being over x% “poor” students, schools are entitled to additional funding. Splitting up this population could jeopardize that funding. Though I assume ps 191 has been receiving that funding and it doesn’t seem to be doing a lot of good…

              To Dannyboy’s “point” about continuous rezoning, I totally disagree. Future rezoning is inevitable. But current plans should be as forward looking as possible to minimize the impact of future rezoning. Rezoning is disruptive to schools. As I have said before, they are trying to jam these plans down our throats without fully thinking them through – take your time, do it right, and have a good plan in place for 2018-2019 rather than having a half-baked plan in place for 2017 then having to quickly fix it a year or two later.

            • dannyboy says:

              “To Dannyboy’s “point” about continuous rezoning…”

              change that to “future rezoning”

    15. Charles says:

      Pandering doesn’t solve problems.
      The schools need to be integrated.
      We can argue about what might be the
      best way to accomplish that, but if what
      these politicians propose perpetuates economic segregation of classrooms, it perpetuates economic segregation. Period.

      • dannyboy says:

        “but if what these politicians propose perpetuates economic segregation of classrooms, it perpetuates economic segregation. Period.”

        You got it!

        plain-and-simple

    16. Phoebe says:

      Many liberals have a very liberal take on the term liberal. What some seem to want is a private school just for them that is free. So why don’t they call it home schooling and hire their nannies to implement it. Without having to pay all the extras for anyone else’s kids to enjoy, it would probably come out even. And they could even get to call it revolutionary. Because let’s face it: no one with “diverse economics” would want to put their kids through this kind of bullying.

    17. dannyboy says:

      Didn’t anyone tell these protesters that they are supposed to bring their protest to the DOE?

      talk about privileged and entitled; couldn’t be inconvenienced to leave their enclave.

      • Shamir says:

        These protesters paid a fair market rate for their apartments.

        The “privileged and entitled” people are the ones who live in big rent regulated apartments.

        • Phoebe says:

          Actually, one of the ways people maintain their wealth is having nannies who pretty much do everything at ALL hours, and by *not* paying for private schooling for their kids.
          I forgot something from my last comment: what about the nannies’ own children? Would they be allowed to attend this full service, home-schooling to keep the “community” together? I guess they’d better hire a “European” nanny.?
          But in all seriousness, no one ever wants to hear about the family of the proxy mother!

        • dannyboy says:

          I’m Living The Life

          not because of my apartment

          …but because my life can generate more than one thought over, and over, and over again.

          you?

    18. No patience says:

      As a tenant in Lincoln Towers, let me assure you, we have many many rent stabilized tenants, it is not a million dollar complex. The buildings are not well built, not full service, and really inconsequential from a real estate point of view. They ARE a middle class complex. I would rather see all this discussion and argument over issues that REALLY matter. The homeless are increasing on the UWS, the neighborhood is dirty (overflowing rusty trash baskets, garbage strewn streets etc) …if we’re fighting for something, let it be a benefit for all of us like a cleaner, better neighborhood.

      • dannyboy says:

        “I would rather see all this discussion and argument over issues that REALLY matter. The homeless are increasing on the UWS, the neighborhood is dirty (overflowing rusty trash baskets, garbage strewn streets etc) …if we’re fighting for something, let it be a benefit for all of us like a cleaner, better neighborhood.”

        a real neighbor!

      • Sherman says:

        If you’re a tenant in LT – as opposed to an owner – you live in a rent stabilized apartment for which you are paying a laughably low rent to live in a great building in a great area.

        If you want better amenities then I suggest you kick in a fair share of the rent rather than let the burden fall on the apartment owners.

        • No patience says:

          Sherman….I’m an owner but I am a tenant as well since I live here. You missed the point entirely. Whichever, doesn’t negate the need to better the neighborhood for the greater good.And btw, LT buildings are very far from great. I agree about stabilization, it does seem owners have the entire burden. I’m not happy about it.

          • dannyboy says:

            Correction”

            From: “a real neighbor!”

            To: “Selectively a neighbor”

            There goes the neighborhood

    19. Anon says:

      If I were a gambling man, I would bet that at tomorrow’s meeting the DOE will release details about scenario C that keep 165 WEA and 185 WEA in the PS 199 zone, thus bringing everything back to square 1.

    20. Citizen says:

      In the comments section, someone talks about how small 191 is. Quote is below. THIS is the type of information that should be included in the plans for the public to review. We need details and I haven’t seen any. (I don’t know how this person obtained that info)

      Anon:
      “The math works out better than you imply because PS 191 is a much smaller school than PS 199. There are only 70-80 kids per grade whereas PS 199 is twice as large. The new school on WEA would have capacity to be the size of PS 199 so splitting the PS 191 kids between the three school would mean only about 1/6 of each grade would be families that would have been zoned for PS 191. This isn’t a large swath. There will still be plenty of UMC families to fund special projects. I understand the “white flight” concept but all of the families won’t be able to move or find a private school for their kids by next Sept. A substantial number will remain in the school they are assigned. They will see that this relatively small number of 5 year olds in their child’s kindergarten don’t harm them in any way.”

    21. Deplorable says:

      Public school is not “free”. It is funded by taxes, which most Lincoln Towers residents no doubt pay plenty in. Parents who send their children to a private school are, effectively, paying twice: tuition for the school that they do use and high taxes for all the schools that they do not use.
      ———
      I wonder, how many UWS parents have, at any point, at least considered home-schooling? How many have considered a boarding school of one type or another? It would be interesting to have some idea of those numbers.

      • dannyboy says:

        These are the people who demand the Rights that ensue from paying taxes, without the Responsibilities of citizenship.

        (paraphrasing Dwight Eisenhower here)

        P,P, lots of taxpayers without school-aged children continue to pay their taxes. Do you figure they are also paying for something they shouldn’t? They pay to educate all of our citizens, not just 1 or 2

        • Independent says:

          “dannyboy” asks,

          Do you figure they are also paying for something they shouldn’t?

          I said nothing about what should or should not be. I merely pointed-out a fact— one that would appear to be overlooked by a number of the commenters in this and similar threads.

          Having said that, I will also point-out that not everyone accepts the ideological and philosophical principles and beliefs that the public school system in this country are founded upon. Heretical as the notion no doubt is to most folks in these parts, the fact is that there are many decent, conscientious, intelligent and educated individuals who, on principle, reject the very premise/concept/ideal of mandatory, universal, State-run education. And, certainly, many who may accept and even support the idea in principle and in concept but who find the existing public school system so far gone by now, so deplorable, as to be irredeemable.

          “If you’re open minded on this”, you might be interested in Milton Friedman’s essay THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT IN EDUCATION.

          • dannyboy says:

            “‘dannyboy” asks,
            Do you figure they are also paying for something they shouldn’t?’
            I said nothing about what should or should not be. I merely pointed-out a fact— one that would appear to be overlooked by a number of the commenters in this and similar threads.

            Independent, I was replying to Deplorable’s Comment. I never said, or implied that you “said” anything.

            But you can argue with yourself, if that helps you make your point.

    22. Phoebe says:

      Despicable

    23. Phoebe says:

      I meant, deplorable?

      There must be a lot of liberals voting for Trump.

      I wonder if NJ is going to try to get the money he owes them.

    24. Thomas Reilly says:

      I thought diversity was something to be embraced. I guess half of Lincoln Towers got a taste of there own medicine.

    25. Eric says:

      “why would you divide a community that has had the same shared history, going back 70 years, and arbitrarily draw a line through a playground & tell the child on the other side, that you can’t see your friend at school?”

      Translation – we wouldn’t mind if PS 191 were filled with kids of white liberal parents like us.