A new branch of the Success Academy charter school network is being considered for the Upper West Side, and might have to co-locate with another local public school. The first Success Academy Upper West Side generated fierce opposition and led to a lawsuit as parents fought against co-locating the school in a traditional public school. It opened in 2011 at the former Brandeis campus on West 84th street.
It’s not clear where the new school would be located.
A hearing is set for Monday, September 29. The following is from Community Education Council 3, the parent group for Upper West Side public schools:
Following CEC3’s efforts and the work of Assembly Member O’Donnell, the DOE has agreed to change the date for the public hearing to provide community feedback regarding Success Charter’s 2015/2016 District 3 new charter colocation application. This delay will provide our community more time to prepare and to plan for the hearing. We are still disappointed, however, that individual charter hearings are not being held for each new application. The DOE and SUNY are combining the District 3 Success Hearing with a Success charter school proposed for District 2. Nevertheless, we urge all involved community members to testify at this hearing:
Monday, September 29th, 2014
Speaker Sign-in 5:30 P.M.
Presentation, Questions, Comments 6:00 P.M.
333 7th Avenue, 7th floorCEC3 is opposed to approving additional Success Charter schools for District 3 and calls on SUNY to reject this application, especially without a predetermined location for the school. We also call for a moratorium on charter approvals unless and until a full audit of existing collocated charters and their compliance with the law – including marketing, enrollment, student retention, and disciplinary policies -has been undertaken by the New York City Comptroller and the New York City Council. In the interim, CEC3 again urges all parents and community members to make their voices heard regarding this new Success Charter Application. If you can’t make it in person please consider emailing to SUNY at charterschools@schools.nyc.gov or faxing to 212-374-5760 within 48 hours after the hearing’s close.
There is nothing more cynical than the charter and school privatization movements. Nothing. The most environmentally conscious BP television ad pales in comparison with the slogans of “the greatest civil rights issue of our time” and “putting the children first.” To be sure, the movement has many well meaning people within it, but most of these move on after a few years. The stalwarts such as Moskowitz are monsters. That may seem harsh, since — who knows — maybe despite all the evidence to the contrary — they believe they are doing good. I don’t care. To use their framing, I care more about kids and believe in accountability.
I truly do not understand the hostility here. Why in the world would we NOT want another high quality free public school in our neighborhod??!?!
I want more high quality schools. This would replace an existing school.
The first Success Academy on the UWS outscored citywide G&Ts that require a 99th %-ile IQ-like test for entry, and did so with a population that matched the UWS in terms of socioeconomic and racial composition. And the model has proven to be scalable across multiple locations. Seems hard to oppose.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-ravitch/mayor-de-blasio-eva-moskowitz_b_4948262.html
Charter schools counsel out difficult kids, which both helps their stats and disproportionately saddles public schools with charter rejects.
I with Lorenzo on the Charters. it is school privatization.
Charters in general have not had superior success. However, some charter chains have. I have not looked at Eva Moskowitz’s numbers, but here are the advantage charters have:
1) self-selection advantage. the parents who enter the charter lotteries are more likely to be involved parents, by definition.
2) as Lorenzo mentions, “counseling out.” Public schools simply cannot dismiss kids. Charters can. They also can put pressure on parents they consider “inferior” for various reasons. Geoffrey Canada at Harlem Children’s Zone “fired” his entire first class of students because they weren’t scoring high enough.
3) lower percentage of limited English speakers.
4) extra funding, privately raised, which goes to extracurriculars, superior equipment, etc.
the final reason is why co-location is so problematic. the public school kids are made to feel inferior and do not have the same facilities. And often the charters have RULES against mingling with the public school kids, for example, at lunch.
Even if these biases were true (they’re not), they’re not relevant to the affluent UWS, so why wouldn’t you want a Success Academy here?
See the link I posted above, it addresses all of these points rigorously. They cannot account for Success Academy’s success – and that’s what this debate is about, not charters in the abstract.
Co-location is inherently wrong. People here get all riled up about a Poor Door. I don’t see the difference.
I’m sorry, I have a hard time believing that these factors solely explain the difference in test scores. And frankly, school privatization is not a bad thing if it produces superior results. Why people continue to beat the drum for the same abysmal broken system is beyond me. We should always opt for more choices for our children.
My children attend a wonderful DOE school. While some DOE schools may not be good, many are fantastic. To paint the entire public school system as an abysmal, broken system is inaccurate.
You didn’t address Bruces points, specifically about separate funding and segregation issues. Remember, this is young, impressionable children we are speaking of. The choice concept is stupid propaganda, and it’s little wonder that one side of the debate is overwhelmingly parents, teachers, and child development scholars, and the other is CEO’s, hedge fund managers, dot-com barons, and other hucksters, who of course have managed to buy both political parties on this issue.
“There is definitely an us vs. them feeling in the air. I’ve been told that they have shiny clean floors, new doors, fancy bathrooms, etc. Meanwhile, we have teachers who have bought mops and even a vacuum cleaner to clean their rooms for they feel what is done is not efficient enough. Near our entrance, we have an adult bathroom. It is for staff and our parents. Success Academy parents as well have used it. For many months that bathroom went out of order. Honestly, I am not even sure it is fixed yet, but after all this time, I really hope so. So we would have to either use the closet of a bathroom in the staff lunch area or use one of the kids’ bathroom when it is not in use. You and I know that had that been an SA bathroom, it would have been fixed by the next day. SA also throws out tons of new or practically new materials often. At first, some of their teachers would sneak us some materials thinking we could benefit from it. They stopped out of fear. With all the great stuff that they have thrown out, they got angry when they found out that teachers from P.S.149 and I believe some of our teachers too would go through the piles and take what we could use. Well, now they only throw out their garbage shortly before pick up so that no one could get at it. Nice, right?”
Separate but equal…
This effect, at least at Success Academy which is what this conversation is about, couldn’t possibly be large enough to explain the test scores. Here’s a rigorous analysis that reaches the same conclusion: https://gradingatlanta.tumblr.com/post/95042156995/is-success-academy-the-climate-change-of-k-12
I would love to know the stats on the numbers that charters have actually “counseled out.” This seems like some anti-charter urban myth. Along with the fact that charters replace existing schools. Co-location is not replacement, it’s co-existence. I’m obviously not going to change your deeply entrenched opinion, I just ask that you talk to parents at success academies about their schools and then make an informed decision about whether you should try and block more families from having the opportunity to attend a truly amazing school. You and I both care deeply about education, we shouldn’t be pitted against each other. Instead we should be supporting more opportunities to improve a failing system.
“Counseling out” is not an urban myth. I heard it directly from a former Upper West Success Academy parent, who is close to a family who still attends the school, that children are counseled out, because of poor test scores.
Well said, Erica.
charter schools should not take space in public schools.
I have a question for the pro-charter crowd. How would you feel about privatizing the NYPD and the FDNY? How about the Civil Rights division of the Justice Dept.? Not a comforting thought, huh?
your question does not really deserve an answer. it makes zero sense.
If the FDNY or the NYPD were failing to protect and serve our families and communities, then I would support any solution that worked.
And Steve, I assume you thought your question was rhetorical, but no, people will actually support the privatization of anything if it has a hopeful, shiny enough package and if it “works”. Because that’s the lesson of privatization, it works. People would support the privatization of the US government with Mark Zuckerberg as our new leader if it had a shiny enough “whatever works” brand rollout.
Yeah, because the government is so stunningly successful at everything it runs and never wastes a penny . . . .
So lets devote more government funds to unaccountable charters run by con artists! To hell with centuries of child development expertise!
Lol. If the NYPD were failing… perish the thought. I’m guessing you’re white.
I think NY public schools have a better record than the NYPD
This is usually how these debates go – each side digging in their heels deeper, and then taking cheap shots at the other. To be clear, yes the NYPD has issues. But the state of our schools – 26% of NYC elementary schools are failing, 43% of all NYC middle schools are failing, 31% of NYC high schools are failing. If these were stats about the NYPD, our city would be in ruins. Everybody who has posted comments here cares deeply about children and about education. We should be models for our kids and work to find solutions, not attack the other side. One solution, create more great schools, schools that don’t persistently fail our kids.
The entire conversation around the reform movement is that teachers are lazy freeloaders just in it for the summer vacations and rubber rooms and easy cushy jobs for life, who need to be shaken up by young white energetic Maggie Gylleyllelyllhaals, and that you care about your concerns (teachers) more than the children.
Everyone cares about children. Pro-charter, anti-charter, parents, you, me etc. It’s interesting how the people who have actually sacrificed their lives to studying development and educating children are overwhelmingly anti the fake “reform” movement and charters (privatization).
And do I really need to state the obvious? The metrics of your failure rates are meaningless and discredited, and there are no comparable metrics to the NYPD, who by the way this past week beat a pregnant woman in the stomach with a truncheon.
Holy Name School on Amsterdam at 97th is now empty. It is a great physical building and could house several “Success” charter schools.
Why not put them there?
I support anything that helps poor and disenfranchised children learn and break the cycle of poverty. Clearly the existing public schools are not doing the job.
Charter schools are public schools and even if they are not, who cares! they are working., especially Success Academy.
Sorry, I just do not understand how you can be against something – anything – that woks, when clearly the status quo public schools do not. what ever you call yourself: pro union , progressive, liberal, etc…how can you stand in the way of helping any of these kids.. please read this op ed
https://nypost.com/2014/10/01/furious-parents-demanding-nyc-schools-that-work/