By Daniel Katzive
Residents of the West 80s say they are fed up with trespassing and rowdy behavior by students from a local high school campus. Students have been congregating on the front steps of residential buildings in large groups and sometimes entering buildings to hang out, they say.
Neighbors of the Louis D. Brandeis High School Campus, which houses four small high schools on West 84th Street, brought their complaints to Monday night’s 20th Precinct Community Council meeting. According to Caryl Liebmann, who lives on West 84th Street, large groups of young people have been gathering on the front stoops of brownstone apartment buildings in the neighborhood, often smoking marijuana, and sometimes entering the vestibules or even the inner doors of the buildings. On one occasion, she found teens sitting outside the door of her second-floor apartment.
Liebmann said she has lived on the block for several years and that, while in the past small numbers of high schoolers would sometimes be found on the steps, in recent months the groups have grown much larger and more disruptive. She told West Side Rag that teens gather before school hours, during midday lunch periods, and after school, sometimes lingering well into the evening. She has been verbally threatened upon asking them to leave. “It has gotten really out of hand,” she said.
Another resident of West 84th Street, who did not want his name used, told West Side Rag on Tuesday that the problem began with the current academic year in the fall. In his building, he said, one resident moved out in response to the activity, no longer feeling safe there. He has spoken with some of the young people who said they have nowhere else to hang out. “Some were cool,” he said, but others told him to get lost, using less delicate language. He said the issue has improved a bit with the inclement weather, but he is concerned that things will deteriorate again as spring arrives.
Liebmann said police have been responsive to 311 complaints, but that students return soon after officers depart.
The new commanding officer of the 20th Precinct, Deputy Inspector Candida Sullivan, said she is sympathetic to the concerns being expressed, having herself grown up in an apartment building in Brooklyn, facing similar concerns. She said the precinct has three youth coordination officers permanently assigned to the north half of the precinct and that they will continue their efforts to address the complaints.
City Councilmember Gale Brewer, who also attended the meeting, said she is “very much aware” of the problem and has been in touch with the principals of the four high schools that share the Brandeis building, one of whom had sent out a letter on the subject. “It’s not just [West 84th Street]. There are other streets involved,” Brewer said. She also lamented the close proximity of an unlicensed smoke shop to the school. “No liquor store would ever be allowed within 500 feet of a school by law. So we have to get rid of these smoke shops,” she said.
Aside from the loitering issue, the year has gotten off to a relatively quiet start in terms of crime on the Upper West Side. In the 20th Precinct, the number of serious felonies reported was slightly higher in the 28-day period ending January 21 compared with last year, and sharply lower in the 24th Precinct to the north after an uptick at this time last year. By this time last year both precincts had already recorded one homicide each, whereas in 2024, so far, there have been none.
Precinct community council meetings are open to the public. In the 24th Precinct, meetings are generally held on the third Wednesday of the month at 7 p.m. in the library across the street from the precinct house on West 100th Street. In the 20th Precinct, meetings are held on the fourth Monday of the month at 7 p.m. at the precinct house on West 82nd Street.
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Thank you for this helpful update article. I live nearby and have noticed this a lot. Does this school offer extra-curricular activities? Students should have alternatives to “hanging out.” I know that is a rite of passage for kids that age (I did it myself back in my glory days), but it sounds like it has gone overboard. Parents and children at the elementary school across the street are not thrilled either.
And before someone decides to blow this up and turn it into a bigger issue, these are kids of all races, genders, etc. So please don’t turn it into some kind of an issue that it is not.
I’m glad that the authorities seem to be making an effort to deal with this. Channel your inner Officer Krupke…
Why are students hanging out on stoops? Why aren’t they simply going home or to after school sports or other activities?
Do you remember what it was like to be a teenager? And don’t tell me you went to band practice or swim meets every day.
when i went to high school about 10 years ago, multiple groups of teenagers did not smoke weed facing the entrance of the school, employees/teachers of the school were not afraid to hold the students accountable for getting high dur8ng lunch and making citizens uncomfortable.
i think last time i walked through there during lunch hours i saw about 5-6 different groups smoking blunts facing the entrance of the school while teachers/employees just scurried away wothout engaging students.
i stopped doing my lunch hour walk for coffee routine after walking through those blocks a few times as the kids were a bit rowdy. if the kids were sitting on my stoop, i would definitly be uncomfortable with it (or if i was a business owner near there missing out on customers due to rowdy kids).
the school should be ashamed at how they are failing those kids letting them get high in front of the schol. the fact that some citizens encourage this type of behavior as normal does not surprise me, too many wacky people in NYC afraid to call out bad behavior when they see it.
They are hanging out to relax and socialize, obviously.
Perhaps we should create a community center where students can feel welcome and supported during their down time? A place where they can smoke or whatever else they need so they feel like the neighborhood provides an inclusive experience that supports their education and life goals? Or, maybe do we fund truancy officers who are empowered to address the situation? Is smoking marijuana legal for underage children or is that only buying it? If it’s done from an unlicensed shop, does it still count that that sale is illegal? This is the difficulty when the city decides not to enforce laws that were created for this purpose. . It’s called the slippery slope.
Here is a question, what if it were adults doing this? Would we be OK? If it were neighborhood employees from around the corner on their break? People from the building next door who wanted a change of scenery? Are stoops and vestibules public property that need to be shared with whomever wants it?
Yes! We need communtiy centers and places for people to hang out- how great would it be for one of the many empty big storefronts to be for teenagers- they could even Staff a cafe, homework help for younger kids… we have no malls, no skating rinks etc… teens need to be in person socializing – as a communtiy we should be thinking how to make this space for them.
Congregating in person makes me so much more optimistic for our future than teens home isolated in rooms online – acckk!
There is a creative solution or choice here.
Is this a joke? If adults were hanging out in the vestibules of other people’s buildings, of course people would be complaining.
And making a place for kids to smoke? What? Why on earth would we do that? Regardless of its legality, it is totally not fair to other people who hate its smell, not tl mention the hewlth issues.
The big question is why is it happening this academic year and not previous academic years? Like what is different between the 2023 to 2024 year versus 2022 to 2023?
Underage purchase of marijuana from the ‘legal’/’gray’ stores is 100% illegal. It’s for adult use/consumption only. The smoke shops sell to minors and that’s a major part of this issue
Almost 100% of these smoke shops are illegal. There’s one in the neighborhood who has a license to operate, per something I read recently . But they’re not getting shut down, just raided periodically and having their product confiscated. They restock and start again the next day. This city completely blew it on rolling out this project, which, I believe, was doomed to fail in a city like this anyway. Hard to enforce on so many operations, especially when we have a city government that’s not interested in law enforcement generally. Are they selling to kids? Of course.
Call your representatives in city council and the state.
Provide kids a place where they can smoke?
Easy solution: Blast opera out of the front window.
I have a long list of dad jokes that make my kids leave the room very quickly!
Good idea. I also suggest playing old Bing Crosby records. That will scatter them.
Back in day teachers, assistant principles and others from schools would patrol area after school telling students were where they shouldn’t be to move along. That and or local LE walking street beat would so same. That’s pretty much gone.
For at least middle and high school aged kids there were always places in past they could go after school. Burger joint, malt shop, etc… Many of those places long have gone and what remain and or have replaced them don’t always welcome hordes of rowdy teens.
Many Starbucks and similar places aren’t thrilled with having hordes of (often) loud teens filling their space, this especially when they are just hanging out and not buying drinks or anything.
Not to be too much of a fussbudget, the word you are looking for is “principals”. I used to remember it as “the principal should be your pal”. “Principles” are what honorable people possess.
That is true. The burger places are gone. Diners are gone.
Kids need safe places to hang out without being hassled. It’s more important to me that kids are able to relax and connect with their friends than for people who MOVED NEXT TO A SCHOOL to avoid contact with children, who are always noisy no matter their age or activity. Instead of overpolicing these young people, these neighbors should advocate for more third places in our city. This isn’t a kid problem, it’s an Eric Adams problem. He won’t close illegal smoke shops, he closes libraries and cuts school funding and social services.
I work at a high school uptown and none of students hang out on stoops. If they don’t leave the area immediately the Principals and the School Safety tell them to go home, sometimes blowing a loud whistle. Sounds like these Principals don’t care.
The kids are hanging out on the vestibules. This is not the problem of the people moving next door to a school
Perhaps it is an Adams problem. It might help to investigate why kids are doing this this year and not previous years
Accurate on all counts
Wow. This is what children do in New York City. GENERATIONS of kids have done it.
This is NOT a problem. If you don’t want them on your stoop, please ask them to move on kindly and don’t get hostile. If you have children and they grow up in the city, please understand that THEY WILL DO THIS TOO.
It takes a village. New York City is not a subdivision
Residential buildings are private properties so going into them and hanging out outside an apartment hallway, whether smoking or not, is trespassing, disturbing the peace and just inappropriate. Take their pictures and record them on your phone , forward to the schools’ officials and the police. Their pictures can also be posted on social media as another incentive for them to stop.
Sitting on stoops may also be annoying but it isn’t the same as entering and hanging out inside buildings. The brownstones on my block have securely locked doors to help prevent unauthorized entry. Some have added gates to prevent non residents from both entering the buildings and sitting on the stoop. It sounds as if these steps haven’t been taken/effectively implemented by the buildings’ owners in the article.
Kids need a place where they can be together and socialize. It’s unfortunate that their schools are apparently either unable to provide or uninterested in providing a safe after school environment that makes them feel welcome and gives them an opportunity to either engage in an activity or just sit around and talk. (But not smoke.) Maybe this is a cost issue. But not recognizing this need encourages them to seek out whatever spaces they can, which are obviously inappropriate.
Lastly, and most importantly, it’s up to the parents to put an end to this behavior. The “village” is providing free public education, child care tax credits, etc. But raising a child to respect others is a parental responsibility. No one expects kids this age (or any age) to be perfect and not make mistakes. But being a constant nuisance to the schools’ neighbors is the responsibility of parents and not the “village”.
Fine, but surely when this starts happening…
“and sometimes entering the vestibules or even the inner doors of the buildings. On one occasion, she found teens sitting outside the door of her second-floor apartment. […] She has been verbally threatened upon asking them to leave.”
…we can agree we’re past stoop-hanging and should find a reasonable solution, right?
Fix the doors
“nowhere else to hang out”
if only Manhattan had a centrally located park somewhere. Maybe a block or two away…
Stoops provide you with better people watching than the park does, this isn’t uncommon in a lot of neighborhoods, the UWS takes note of it more. This reminds me of the big blow up residents in Brooklyn Heights had with the basketball courts along the East River. Same scenario, upwardly mobile mostly newbies to the area who had never encountered NYC teenagers after school. In my day we had Decepticons, in today’s world we have Karens.
You think it’s unreasonable to not want teenagers to go INTO YOUR APARTMENT BUILDING AND THREATEN YOU?
Sounds like a teenager commenting.
The only reason teenagers would have anything to say to you is if you approached them first, if you kept it moving, I guarantee the teens would have ignored you.
Stoops are one thing, but are you really saying that if a group of teenagers is hanging out in the hallway of my apartment building (where they don’t live), I am simply supposed to ignore them an keep moving??
Exactly. You hang out in homes or parks. I didn’t hang out on the sidewalk after school when I was a kid.
Why don’t these kids have places to go? Teens are going to hang out, it’s in their nature. If you don’t give them somewhere to be themselves, the activity is going to spill out to other spaces.
Also, this is why unlicensed smoke shops are such a bane on the whole damn city.
Why don’t these kids ‘hang out’ at home? Why aren’t you making your studio available to them? There is no excuse or rationalization or apologism or blame-casting onto the larger society that justifies them trespassing on private property, and threatening individuals– single, senior-citizen women, at that.
Several years ago, we had this problem in front of our brownstone. But then my rambunctious pit bull puppy grew up. It seemed like every time the kids showed up on our stoop, he’d need to be taken out to the park. I would never have guessed that he could be so aggressive and vicious! How could I have known?
After a couple of near bitings though, the kids stopped showing up. I guess they felt unwelcome.
you realize if your dog latches on to one of those kids – not even breaking skin – the city will put it down if reported. Good job, Rambo
Lived & grew up on UWS for 50+ years. Social services have gone down and now there no after-school programs or opportunities for these kids. as a POC (and likely most of these kids are too) I have seen less and less being spent to provide safety or activities. Unfortunately it leads to these situations.
What does being a POC have to do with this? Why is everything turned into identity politics? Should we only have after school programs for minorities? That seems kind of racist to me!
Perhaps their parents should take some responsibility. I have kids close to this age and I ask where they are going after school and try to have structured things for them to do at least a few days a week. And most of these cost little or no money. Or perhaps they can get a job. Or volunteer to help people.
Bravo for your comments. Teen behavior and dis ipline starts in the home. They don’t just congregate on brownstone steps, but on street corners. They make it impossible at times to walk on the sidewalks and are just hanging around smoking marijuana. The future of NYC.
Actually it is not accurate. Most schools now have FREE afterschool programs and summer camps. Just a few years ago there was nothing free.
Years ago, when I was growing up, the police would operate the “Police Athletic League” (PAL) to give support to kids after school. I think that school gyms were used for these activities.
I remember the PAL. But police have been so indiscriminately, broadly, and unfairly vilified in the last decade that it’s hard to imagine any kids participating in that now. Very sad.
PAL is a great program and there are several other NYPD youth programs too. But the nypd has been villainized by the city. The DOE takes no action or bring any solutions to the table other than creating more programs that don’t work and absolving parents of any real responsibility. All the blame is placed on “society” and “community.” The Doe doesn’t want to hold the teens and their parents accountable for their severe lack of parenting. They think we shouldn’t have any rules
Who should ultimately be responsible for the child and making sure they are not being disrespectful to neighbors, not least of which entering their buildings, hanging out in vestibules, smoking??? Is it the parents responsibility for their child? Are they being alerted to this issue? Are they made aware that their child may require more supervision? Aren’t they in the best position to tell their kid this is wrong? They are raising them? No? In the comments I see its Mayor Adam’s fault. Its the residents on the street who need to address the issue. The illegal smoke shops. The lack of coffee shops. Who else is at fault? The village it takes to raise them. The kids are victims because they havent been directed to an appropriate after school program. Directed by whom? The principal’s fault. A lot of responsibility being placed on the school. How come no mention of parents or family members who they respect being held accountable? Not their responsibility? Of course the kid doesn’t care.
If students actually went to school closest to their home we wouldn’t have this problem
That is an interesting point. Maybe high school kids don’t always have the maturity level yet to be far from home where they don’t have neighbors they know looking out for them?
There is a big play area just outside of Brandeis H.S. with basket ballcourts and a so ccer field.which should have after school activities.
Where are the police patrols? to tell students to move along?
As to poor graduation rates at Brandeis there has been a dumbing down of education for the last 50years. The rate should be actually higher if based on the old standards. Don’t use covid as an excuse,
Where are the police patrols? – They are in the 1950s – West Side Story
This problem is getting worse. The students are usually pretty polite when I ask them to smoke elsewhere, but not always. I just don’t need the hassle.
Where else are they gonna smoke the weed they just bought at one of the many CBD shops along Amsterdam?
There are more programs for teens and rec centers than ever before. Sure it’s not a diner or a coffee shop or place where they can get high but there are MANY activities for young adults and teens all over the FIVE Boroughs. Cops are not able to do much and teens now are the most disrespectful and unmotivated than they have ever been. Covid did a real number on this age group. They lost years of socialization, social skills development and real education. There’s only so much a community can do if the parents do not do their part in helping their child/ren. The community should not be responsible to “police” the community or to keep it safe. Where are the parents?!!!!
If people are so desperate to have a load of kids why don’t they make sure they’re being responsible and taking care of the little drug nuts!? Makes no sense. Why kind of society are we allowing to happen on the UWS ? It’s only gonna get worse… Sad and leading nowhere as they grow up.
I perhaps accidentally doused them on my stoop once when I was watering the plants on my windowsill. They didn’t come back. Won’t risk getting their beloved joints wet
We had students from a private school in the 80s on our stoop and it was a nuisance. Contacted the school and the reply was “our students wouldn’t do that”. I told her to come over to see it for herself. Had to call 311 a few times. Young people want to hang out but these are private properties. They were loud, messy and disrespectful. It’s amazing how people feel that stoops are like park benches.
I wish the school’s garden was open and supervised after school.
It could be time to test The Mosquito on West 84th Street. But, it’s controversial.
https://mosquitoloiteringsolutions.com/us/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqsitBhDlARIsAGMR1Rhmwlq915QcISRgSZQsoyyySWU5xVWnBVmOyOTjZjbQhfU3GETp3zAaAuwJEALw_wcB
Unfortunately it seems the students know the police will only ask them to move when they are on the stoop.
Trespassing into the vestibule, hallway is beyond the pale and should be arrested. Would hard to believe a student would be so ignorant that they would not understand trespassing in this form.
Before the decline in malls due to e-commerce, some malls played classical music to reduce teens from hanging out.
It worked LOL
The school officers should be patrolling the block up and down for at least 30 minutes after the school day is over.