Political Firestorm Erupts Over Bathroom Access for Delivery Workers on the UWS
A community board meeting this week covering a topic that seemed relatively innocuous — bathroom breaks for delivery workers — ended up in a heated debate that shined a spotlight on the difficult lives of people who work for delivery apps.
The debate took place at a Community Board 7 Transportation Committee meeting, where board member Ken Coughlin introduced a resolution that encourages restaurants to let delivery workers use the bathroom when they come by to pick up orders. For restaurants that don’t allow workers inside, there could be consequences: the decision could impact those restaurant’s liquor license applications, Coughlin suggested. Among the many challenges for people delivering food for apps is that they often don’t have anywhere to go to the bathroom during shifts that last many hours.
“This is an example of how we as a society take some of our essential workers and unintentionally treat them as something less than human,” he said.
But other board members objected to the resolution. Linda Alexander worried about restaurants that only have one stall, and need to serve their patrons. She said she supports New York offering public bathrooms. “We live in one of the few cities in the world that doesn’t have public facilities. And that’s crazy. That’s really where this conversation should be directed,” she said. She also thinks the delivery app companies should have to pay the restaurants for extra staff hours to take care of Covid protocols.
Board member Barbara Adler said she thinks restaurants should let people use the restroom, but they shouldn’t be forced. “You can’t force a restaurateur to use the bathroom if they’re absolutely opposed to it,” she said. “The whole thing is asinine.”
Board member Howard Yaruss suggested they take out the language about the liquor licenses, so it’s simply a request without potential consequences. But the board once again opposed it, and Coughlin ended up tabling it for now.
The meeting video is here, and the discussion starts around 52 minutes in:
Streetsblog reported first on the meeting, with the headline “Supposedly Progressive Upper West Side Offers No Relief to Deliveristas”. Then Vice wrote the story “Manhattan Community Board Calls Giving Gig Workers Bathroom Access ‘Crazy'”.
Adler told WSR that the coverage left out the context of her comments, and that she wants to talk with the people directly affected by the rules at the next meeting.
“I said loud and clear that I thought delivery people should be allowed to use the restrooms, and that it’s only common decency,” she wrote in an email. “My concerns were about the poor wording of the resolution, safety issues regarding Covid, and making sure that we have input from all the stakeholders including the public, workers and businesses. What was conveniently left out is that we agreed to continue this discussion and have all the stakeholders present at the next meeting.”
Some of these issues may end up being addressed by citywide legislation. This week, bills were introduced in the City Council to deal with this issue. “The bills would require restaurant owners to guarantee the delivery workers — who have organized under the banner of ‘Deliveristas’ — access to their bathrooms so long as it poses ‘no health or safety risk,'” the Daily News reported.
Sara Lind, a Community Board 7 member who supported Coughlin’s resolution, put out a statement about the issue on Thursday chiding her fellow board members. Lind is running for City Council. The language in her statement was critical of Borough President Gale Brewer, who is running for City Council against Lind. Without naming her, it goes after Brewer for her choices of who is on the community board.
““The Borough President has oversight of the community board, and members are appointed by the Borough President and Councilmembers. This is why it is so important that we elect leaders who are willing to stand up for what’s right. As your Councilmember, I will prioritize recruiting people that have been underrepresented, like the essential workers who have put their lives on the line for us through this pandemic.”
no matter what you may think of delivery drivers, they are still human beings who have the same bodily functions as anyone else. to deny them the right to relieve themselves is beyond inhuman. I live alone but have not hesitated to offer the use of my bathroom to female postal delivery workers, ups, or amazon drivers. Until we treat one another with respect, we will never come together as a society.
You let strangers into your home?
these people are not “strangers” but workers I see on a daily or weekly basis who service my apartment building. They are human beings with human needs and have very limited options for necessary bodily functions. A little kindness goes a long way and I will not live in fear because of that.
Over 75 comments about bathroom use.
Amazing
Oh my Lord, let the delivery guys pee. I can’t believe this is up for debate.
This should not be in issue, but why does this, and almost every other comment here, presuppose that it is an issue? Why castigate our neighborhood’s businesses when there’s no demonstrated reason to do so?
Shouldn’t the competent committee on the Community Board investigate this and make the preliminary determination and recommendation to the whole Board? That committee, by the way, is Business, not Transportation.
While this is ‘inside baseball’ what we’re seeing here is the action of an interlocking group, the Transportation Alternatives – Open Plans crowd, proposing something outside of its domain, getting the responses it wants, and then creating some media through its house organ (Streetsblog) which thoroughly distorted the statements and sentiments expressed in the meeting. (Just watch the Youtube).
Then, of course, their candidate for Council weighs in without noting how the whole thing was a set up from the get go.
The Board is being played by a coordinated group of activists whose honesty is demonstrably questionable.
Jon,
Thank you for the info about TA etc.
I think delivery workers should have bathroom access – but very cynical about TA and “candidate” involvement here.
Also it seems to be forgotten that preDoor Dash and Uber Eats, delivery staff worked for individual restaurants – and should have had bathroom access.
Absolutely! What a petty issue. Restaurants need to clean their restrooms frequently anyway since COVID. And customers need to be responsible for their own cleanliness as well.
This issue seems to be universally mis-understood. Gig-econ workers (for Seemless, Door-dash, Uber Eats, whatever) do NOT work for the restaurants. These delivery companies charge large fees to the restaurants for access to their “platforms.” The restaurants are squeezed. The gig-workers are not under the control of the restaurants, can’t be asked to comply with managements requests, etc.. There are tech millionaire/billionaire owners of these companies (and their investors) who take all the money and none of the responsibility, and OF COURSE want restaurants to shoulder it all. The only good that could come from this misunderstanding of who is responsible for the “deliveristas” (good grief, that name – revolutionaries?) is that restaurants may finally dump the platforms and return to days when all the money didn’t go up the tech chain to very few.
While I think delivery workers should have immediate access to restaurant bathrooms, you have an excellent point. I have not ordered from a restaurant since delivery became tied to Seamless and assorted apps. I don’t understand why these restaurants are being strong-armed into using these high tech services. Why can’t patrons order directly from the restaurants themselves, by either phone or the establishment’s own website? The latter seems a lot more efficient.
We don’t order delivery very often, but when possible, we try to do so straight from the restaurant to help them to maximize their profits and cut out the middle man.
I am theoretically supportive of public bathrooms, except unfortunately, they would almost immediately be turned into homes for the homeless and people would be complaining about that.
Amazon drivers face a similar problem. In both cases the worker faces tremendous pressure to be constantly working, so taking time to go out of their way to use a bathroom costs them money.
You almost always CAN order directly — if you call up just about any restaurant that delivers they will very gladly take your order. In fact, they’d vastly prefer it — that way they get to keep the profit, rather than having to send most of it to some tech company.
Really! The few times I’ve called my area restaurants they’ve directed me to Seamless or another such app.
The latter is not more efficient. It’s well known to anyone who orders online from websites like Amazon or Expedia that it’s more efficient to search and shop on that website than going to an individual business’ website. The same applies to food delivery services.
I don’t think ordering a meal from a restaurant is comparable to ordering assorted goods from Amazon, with all due respect. I recently ordered a microwave from Amazon and, yes, it was quite convenient to be able to assess the different brands from different merchandisers on one platform; however, I intimately know my neighborhood restaurants and their offerings so that calling directly and ordering my favorite vegan dish is a lot more convenient that using my computer to bring up Seamless and navigate its website.
The way you order food is not comparable to the way others order when they use Seamless. You already know what you want since you’re ordering the same vegan dish each time. Others use Seamless to read ratings, reviews, and menus for new ideas. For most people, the advantages of ordering & paying online are preferred to calling a live person to give them the same information.
It doesn’t matter who is paying them, the delivery workers deserve to use the bathroom.
I agree that this is just another way that platform owners are shifting costs onto restaurants. However, human decency does have to kick in somewhere.
Absolutely the conversation should be directed to building public restrooms throughout the city.
It’s a crime to not let delivery people use bathrooms. I am disgusted by any objection to it. Pls make it mandatory that restauranteurs allow delivery people to have access to clean bathrooms.
Peter Knitzer
If you deliver for a restaurant, then you should be able to use their restaurant.
I am all for delivery people having access to lavatory facilities at the restaurants. I would also like them to pledge not to drive their electric bikes on the sidewalk.
Honestly, I’m trying to make sure I understand this, because I must have it wrong. There are actually restaurant owners who refuse to let their deliverers use their bathroom? Hoping so much that I have this wrong.
Alex- yes, you (and basically everyone else) have it wrong. Deliver persons who are employed by restaurants, and are answerable to restaurants, are not what this is about. This is about the gig-Econ workers who are nominally “employed” by enormous tech companies, who take no responsibility for them, and instead ask the city and the restaurants who they charge to be responsible. The person placing the order in an app is closer to being an employer of these gig-workers than the restaurants – this bill should either be requiring app users to provide facilities, or require the companies themselves to provide them.
Exactly. A worker needs a place to use the restroom. Whose problem is that? Well it should be the employer’s. If they want to employ people, they need to find a way for those people to use the restroom. If that means paying restaurants for access, great. If it means setting up a restroom somewhere, great. But it’s their problem, and the law should make it their problem.
Instead, though, we’ve let those companies make it the worker’s problem. And now, because the workers obviously can’t solve it themselves, we’re going to force a third party to step up to the plate instead, at their own expense. It sounds like the compassionate thing to do, but what we’re really doing is just shifting responsibility off hugely rich tech companies and onto struggling restaurants. We should put it back where it belongs.
Good point. Since most delivery workers do not work directly for any one restaurant, it’s the customers who should provide the bathrooms.We need to open our homes to these hard-working people, and make it clear that they are welcome to drop in whenever they need to.
Why haven’t you? Post a big sign outside – “Public Restroom – Delivery Workers Welcome”.
What else should *we* be doing for the poor shareholders of DoorDash – because they can’t invest in taking care of their contractors?
Of course the delivery people should be allowed to use restaurants’ bathrooms, and I seriously doubt it would interfere with restaurant customers.
The current state of affairs shows that NYC is simply not a civilized world-class city.
Awhile back, maybe 20 years ago if I remember correctly, they were going to put automated kiosks on the streets for this purpose; it was going to cost 25 cents per single usage.
It appeared to be an amazing advance; from NOTHING to a high tech solution that treated human needs with the necessary respect they deserve.
Then (again, if I remember rightly) a lobby for the disabled put the Kibosh on the whole concept because it wouldn’t work for them, unless there was an attendant for each automated kiosk… but of course there was no way to pay for an army of attendants… so that was it, we as a city went back uncomplainingly to our uncivilized disdain for necessary biological functions, for comfort.
And guess what? That’s gonna happen again here too: a little noise, a little brouhaha, then quietly back to the status quo ante when some other problem REARS its HEAD.
Phooey on NYC!
yep there are 15 of them rotting in Queens
https://gothamist.com/news/a-decade-after-their-debut-15-public-toilets-are-still-sitting-in-a-warehouse-in-queens
Here is the resolution. Readers can decide for themselves how “poor” the wording is.
“Let Our Workers Go”: A Resolution
The following facts and concerns were taken into account in arriving at our conclusions:
Food delivery workers are vital arteries in our city. The coronavirus pandemic has brought into sharp relief how essential these workers are, as restaurants closed indoor dining and delivery became one of the only ways to get a meal one didn’t cook oneself.
Increasingly, these delivery workers are not employed by individual restaurants but are instead engaged by third-party app companies, which serve as the intermediary between the restaurant and the consumer.
The delivery worker receives an order from the app company, picks it up at the restaurant, and delivers it to the ordering consumer.
During the pandemic, some food delivery workers have been forced to turn to app companies because the restaurants that once employed them have closed.
Food delivery workers, who typically make their deliveries by bicycle, face a host of hazards: low pay, dangerous streets, constant exposure to the elements and, recently, the armed theft of their E-bikes.
Adding to these hazards, many food delivery workers complain that the restaurants they pick up deliveries from are denying them access to the restaurant’s restrooms. Given New York City’s dearth of public restrooms, this leaves delivery workers few if any legal options to relieve themselves or to wash their hands.
“We’re what’s driving their income right now,” one delivery worker told The City in late 2020. “But they discriminate against us. We can’t use their bathroom. They cast us aside and ignore us . . . They treat us like we’re insects.”
THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED THAT Community Board 7 Manhattan calls on all restaurants in our district that use app-based deliveries to allow delivery workers picking up from that restaurant unrestricted use of the establishment’s restroom facilities.
Failure to do so will be taken into consideration when a restaurant applies to Community Board 7 for the awarding or renewal of State Liquor Authority or sidewalk cafe licenses.
This good. Board 7?
Fearful predictions about its effect and micromanaging the details are basic leadership failures. If a deliverista is doing business out of a location, why shouldn’t he or she be able to use the bathroom like any other customer?
Isn’t there more to it than this?
First, shouldn’t the board identify the scope of the problem, if any?
Second, isn’t the issue properly before the Business committee, not the Transportation committee? And wasn’t much of the exception taken at the meeting from members of the Business committee who were sitting in as you stepped on their turf?
In fact, if you watch the Youtube, you see that even the members who are on both committees objected to this resolution because it’s premature and in the wrong venue.
The resolution was presented as joint with both committees.
The comments made by the people on the Business committee did not reflect that at all. I heard complaints about last minute notification and the lack of any opportunity to prepare.
Nor was the meeting noticed as a joint meeting.
The fact that this city is bereft of public restrooms is a disgrace. We assume the delivery people who work for the restaurants can use the restrooms, so why not those who are providing income to the restaurants with their third party delivery services. Where else can they go?
Fine. Just out the restaurants who refuse to let deliveristas use the facilities and order food from ones that do
Before we label our local restauranteurs as SOBs shouldn’t we find out whether they’re SOBs?
Is this a problem or is it grandstanding?
I have actually seen in broad daylight two delivery workers using a couple phone booths next to each other on 83 and broadway as a urinal. Couldn’t believe what I was seeing… That being said, I’m not sure you can FORCE every single place to open up restrooms, but it should be highly encouraged.
There are public bathrooms in Central Park… their eBike will get them there in no time. And they already don’t pay attention to the rules and ride on sidewalks, in bike lanes often in the opposite direction.
If I want to take a leak, I can only use a restaurant bathroom if I am a customer. If you feel bad, perhaps allow them to use your personal bathroom in your apartment when they deliver your food!
Incorrect. only a few public bathrooms in Central Park. The reason more bathrooms were not built when the park was designed it was a park built for the local community around the park and you can use the toilet at home.
The only public toilet are meant for outside the neighborhood visitors by the carousel, tennis courts, the meer, conservancy garden.
While Central Park has many more public bathrooms than you describe, I agree it’s not a viable alternative since most delivery work occurs in evenings and after dark.
It is a shame there are no facilities for these folks. I thought it was also a problem for the fruit and vegetable stands. At the height of the pandemic a local Bangladeshi fruit seller who I was very fond of, despite our lack of a common language, handed me a large pile of bills so I could take over the stand while he left for 15 minutes. It was the highlight of my week, but I have no idea how he managed the other 6 days. We do need public bathrooms!
Sidebar comment. Over time, Mayor after Mayor planned public toilets in New York city, but only a few “demonstrator” models were constructed. We have none compared to some other countries (principally in Europe I’m told). Once upon a time I was in Montreal, Canada, and I needed to use a toilet. I went into a restaurant and asked to use theirs, but was told I should use a City public toilet nearby. What? And so I went (it was below ground). As I was going down the stairs, four or five men were coming upstairs carrying mops and pails. It was my “misfortune” to see that the public toilet was immaculate. The crew I passed was a Montreal city cleaning crew, which was leaving after cleaning the toilet, so that I thought all public toilets were like this (they were). Also some had matrons for the women’s toilets. Voila!
Give me a break .
The community board is a bunch of white privilege people. I’m Embarrassed by their behavior .
I can’t believe anyone would object to a delivery person using a restaurant bathroom during the pick up .
Please table that “white privilege” nonsense. NO ONE is saying that delivery people not be allowed to use restaurant restrooms. The issue is adding further legislation and penalties on already overburdened small businesses, rather than simply making public best-efforts suggestions.
Did you listen to the whole video?
Did you listen to the video?
Wow, I’m surprised it took the UWS readers 18 comments before someone turned this into being about race. I would have predicted invoking race by the third comment.
Cant they use the street like everyone else?
The members of CB 7 cannot weasel out of this one, trying to edit their comments now that they have been exposed. The video is up on the web for all to see. And I encourage people to watch it, after perhaps taking a pepto for the nausea – its even worse than reported in the press: a member actually suggested that these people cannot be allowed to use bathrooms until the restaurants get grants to hire cleaning people because, presumably, they are dirtier than normal human beings. That, my friend, is racism, and everyone on the Board has been outed. What is unsaid in all this is that public urination is one of the top “crimes of poverty” that results in deportation of immigrants – yes, also in “sanctuary city” New York. Deliveristas are the expendable servant class of nice pwo-gwessives on the UWS who like their food hot, but don’t want to hear about human needs among their servants.
The continual expansion of the term ‘essential worker’ is getting ridiculous and needs to stop. A food delivery worker is not an essential worker. They are convenience workers. Someone selling fruits/vegetables on the street is not essential either.
But whether they’re essential or not should not determine how their personal hygiene needs are met. There are many workers who are in the same predicament by the nature of their work. Does anyone whine and worry about traffic agents, other delivery workers, and building inspectors who are out working all day?
It’s not a private business’ responsibility to be NYC’s bathroom for workers who have a fleeting relationship with that business. It’s the responsibility of the entity that employs them to figure out a way to take care of its employees. Unless you’re in a business owner’s shoes, you shouldn’t decide what they should do. You have to be invested in the entire set of circumstances facing a business owner not just the bathroom predicament.
It’s a bathroom, why is it such a big deal to allow people to use the bathroom? If you haven’t worked as a delivery worker is it really fair to make observations on how much they should sacrifice in order to comfort others?
I’m a fairly well turned out man. white. I speak educated, unaccented English. I am fully conscious of my white privilage and have never been turned away by a restaurant or bar at which I’ve asked to use their bathroom.
How does that fit into this discussion?
The community board is appointed by the borough president and the neighborhood city council representative. As borough president, Gale Brewer appointed many of the people who opposed this resolution. If she is elected to the city council, does she plan to reappoint them after this fiasco?
In London they have 4 way urinals on the streets and pop up restrooms at night.
Jeez here we go.
Please don’t compare any other city or country with NYC.
Thanks
If you really care about local restaurants, order from them by phone or their website and tip generously. You’re not helping restaurants or delivery people by supporting Silicon Valley Vampires. Using those increases cost of food for everyone! If you join them for 10/mo and order 100+/ you get perks-your perks are restaurants loss. Here’s what restaurants pay:
What are the Grubhub fees for restaurants? Standard Grubhub fees include a 20% marketing fee applied as a percentage of each order received directly through the Grubhub platform, and a 10% delivery fee for restaruants that choose to use our devliery services.
GET IT?
I’ve seen several comments like this posted here the past few months, so last week I ordered directly from a restaurant and 20 minutes later I got a text saying my Door Dash delivery was on his way. I’ve never signed up for Door Dash. When the person arrived he insisted on taking a photo of me to prove that he’d made the delivery. Today I called a Chinese restaurant directly and they told me to go online, lol. There must be a reason that restaurants are using these services. In any case, I think anyone who physically goes into a restaurant to pick up and make a delivery on behalf of a restaurant should be allowed to use their bathroom.
Why not have public bathrooms….the size of a telephone booth, and looking like a stall (open from the floor to about the knee – so you can tell if someone’s in there – and large enough so a mother could tend her child in it)……It would solve a lot of problems. I’d pay a quarter, 50 cents or a dollar in an emergency!!!
Hmm. Why not let any person who wants to pee to pee? Why only delivery workers can have right to pee, what about me, I need to pee too when I’m outside.
Having watched the video, it’s really just shameful how rude and obnxious some of our Community Board members were toward this proposal (eg Adler, Alexendar, others). I’m embarassed that people like that represent me as an UWS’er, and the Borough President and Councilmembers who appoint people need to think twice about re-appointing people who are so disrepectful. The classism and racism behind some of the objections is awful. Delivery people helped restaurants survive the lockdown- of course they should be allowed to use the bathrooms and have their health and safety protected. Glad the City Council is doing something about this rather than relying on backwards community boards. And yes to more public restrooms generally as well!
I’m at a loss to understand how this can be an issue. This is about human decency. I was standing in a restaurant on Columbus Ave. and I watched a delivery person come in to pickup an order and ask to use the bathroom. I was shocked when he was told no. I didn’t realize how prevalent this is.
Restaurants all over the city that could not open their dining rooms benefited from delivery services, yet they can’t offer the person that helped their business survive a moment to use the bathroom. What?!
When I think of all that delivery workers have been through during this pandemic, I think restaurant owners can and should do better. What an embarrassment.
Ahhh…The People’s Republic of the UWS eating itself.
Community board is late on this issue, city council is already considering various measures.
https://www.thecity.nyc/work/2021/4/27/22405641/food-delivery-workers-open-restaurant-restrooms-regulate-apps
Since the restaurants do not employ or even hire the delivery people, but they are employed by the separate various delivery firms, I don’t see why it should be put on the restaurants. Since the people who order food are engaging the delivery people to service their needs and are getting the benefit of their efforts, I think CB 7 should mandate that the delivery people can use the bathrooms in the apartments of the people to whom the orders are being delivered. Doesn’t that make perfect sense — put the obligation on those who place the order for their help? Thanks.
Agree with other posters in that it shouldn’t fall to private businesses to provide public restrooms. But this state and city has a long history of dragooning private sector into providing public services (i.e. rent control laws), so there you are.
For a supposedly world class city New York has an appallingly low number of public restrooms. Paris, London, Berlin Tokyo and other cities that are major tourist destinations have at least attempted to address the problem.
In Germany restaurants are required to allow non-patrons to use the W.C., but they are free to charge a fee (and many do).
I wish that NYC had these innovative public toilets designed by talented architect Shigeru Ban.
https://tinyurl.com/2s65afn7
Typical liberal hypocrisy. The same people welcoming homeless drug addicts, and handing out tents to people implicated in murder, are the same ones who don’t want working class people to use a bathroom. If this were about trans people using the bathrooms, there would be an unanimous Yes, but the average Joe? Nope. The dems have all lost their minds. What an absolute waste of time to be debating something like this — anyone and everyone should be able to use the bathroom, period, and frankly I haven’t heard any evidence that suggests delivery people have been excluded from restaurant bathroom use.
The obvious solution is to require the delivery services (not the workers) to rent spaces in their delivery areas, install toilets and let the workers use them.
How narrow-minded this all is. Urinatian and defecation are human needs and human rights. Everybody, not only delivery workers, needs access to toilets. Deny it, and you turn sidewalks into de facto toilets.
Easy to solve. Just put a note on your door or let your doorman know that if a delivery person needs to use the bathroom your apartment bathroom is available. And you can even post that invitation as part of your order information so that the delivery person will know of the option without having to ask your doorman. A very simple, humane and inexpensive approach which does not require a ten year period for NYC to design and build public toilets and figure out how to keep them clean and safe. Ok?
Awesome comment. Funny too.
Be the change you want to see in the world, right? Hello? What? Voting for anyone with a D after their name is easy virtue, but, actually walking the walk? Not so easy, huh? Name calling your local small businesses (what remains of them) and puffing yourself up? Easy. Opening your bathroom to your delivery worker? Well…
I think the bath room issue is just a symptom. We have allowed a system to take hold in which workers are employed by no one. They are poorly paid while large companies profit off their labor and restaurants are able to increase delivery orders with no impact to labor costs. I loathe comparisons between the US and Europe but this country does allow shameful treatment of workers to keep taxes and prices artificially low. Our government won’t hold employers accountable and we lack the collective conscience to make them do so. Even in so called Progressive enclaves we make decisions that perpetuate the oppression of others.
Well, if we are going to talk toilets at a Transportation Committee meeting, why not ask the MTA if they have toilets which could be public toilets like those wonderful works of art in the U.K. retrofitted for NYC and the UWS?
Linda Alexander is spot on!! WHERE ARR THE PUBLIC RESTROOMS IN NYC!! A WALKING CUTY?? Easy for a male to whip it out between cars, but how about females??