By Carol Tannenhauser
On Wednesday, Fordham University’s Lincoln Center campus became the site of a Gaza solidarity encampment, which was cleared by the NYPD by 6 p.m. that evening.
Police arrested 15 people for misdemeanor trespassing, some of whom are believed by the university to be Fordham students.
The police were called in by Fordham President Tania Tetlow, who said in a letter to the Fordham community, shared with us by a reader, “We draw the line at intrusions into a classroom building … (There is a difference between free speech and people barging into your home to shout.)”
Tetlow also said that the hundreds of protesters who gathered outside the building on West 60th Street “came from elsewhere, drawn by social media invitations to support the few protesters on the other side of the window. The growing crowd outside banged on the glass so violently we worried they would break it. We worried that the protesters would rush further into campus.”
According to News4NewYork, “NYPD officers in riot gear were seen arriving with ballistic helmets and batons by late Wednesday afternoon.”
Tetlow said in her letter that her decision “was not about parsing the difference between protected political speech and threats, nor was it about the Middle East. This was only about the physical protection of the campus. It comes down to this: Fordham students have a right to feel safe and to finish their exams. Period.”
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Remember October 7. Pictures of the Hamas attack on innocent Israelis should be shown to the so-called Palestinian supporters and then ask them for justification.
Jo – The Hamas attack was horrible but the response has been completely disproportionate. How can we justify the killing of 35,000 civilians, mostly women and children? It is a terrible crime against humanity, including bombing hospitals and denying food, shelter and healthcare to innocent people.
Because it can never be allowed to happen again and hamas has vowed to do it over and over.
“The Hamas attack was horrible but…”
There is no but. Hamas was democratically elected and has not shifted its platform. They voted for it.
No Katina, it’s not a crime against humanity. It’s absolutely awful, but Israel, like every country invaded by barbaric intruders has a right to respond. The allies had to bomb Nazi Germany unmercifully until they surrendered. The US had to use two horrific atom bombs to get Hirohito to surrender.
Israel was attacked in 1948 by Arab neighbors, then in 1967 and again 1973 and now the October 7 heinous massacre of innocent civilians. All with the goal of wiping out the sovereign Jewish state of Israel. Literally trying to wipe it out.
Spare us the charge of crimes against humanity when a nation and a religion fight back against an existential threat to its existence. Or is it only a crime when Jews fight back?
The problem with Palestinians is that the Arab countries also don’t care about them. They see Palestinians as a threat to their regime like Black September. Powers like Iran are using the Palestinians to disrupt the Arab Israeli alliance that has been budding. If Iran truly cared about Palestinian suffering, they would take in Palestinian refugees and care for them. Otherwise an independent Palestinian state will use whatever freedom it has to attack Israel.
Also maybe something like the Treaty of Lausanne may have to happen for permanent peace. I know because that’s what stopped the Greek and Turkish war.
War is horrible – we all agree. The result is the deaths of innocent civilians who are not part of the fight. My mom was a teenager in Naples, Italy during WWII. She told me the Americans were incessantly bombing the city trying to kill the occupying German soldiers. Innocent civilians were killed. Many were hiding in the street tunnels without food and in need of medicine.
Israeli tactics are fair game and they are robustly criticized by many in Israel. But you’re just mindlessly repeating Hamas propaganda, including reports from the “Gaza Health Ministry”, which, of course, is an arm of Hamas. Read Josh’s excellent reply below.
Katina, please understand that it is NOT 35,000 CIVILIANS. There are two main caveats that have to be addressed with the number quoted: 1) the numbers are reported by Hamas (the Health Ministry is an arm of Hamas) and are not independently confirmed and are coming from a militant group who has designed their war fighting structure to maximize the number of their own civilians who will die in the fighting. And most importantly 2) the numbers do not distinguish between armed combatants and civilians, let alone between women/children/men/fighters. Based on the number of fighters Israel says they have killed, combining with the number reported by Hamas, the civilian to combatant ratio is about 2:1. To put this in perspective, WWI had a ratio of 1.5:1, WWII had a ratio of about 2:1 (same as in Gaza), Korean War 3:1 (higher than Gaza), Vietnam War 2:1 (same as Gaza), Afghanistan 1.1:4 (way to go USA!), Iraq 2.3:1 (higher than Gaza). So, looking at these numbers, with Hamas trying to maximize civilian deaths and Israel trying to minimize them, the ratio falls in line with the average of wars from WWI to present. (Historical ratio source: Wikipedia)
No one wants to see civilians, especially women and children, die in a military conflict. Except Hamas, of course; that’s pretty much their primary objective.
That being said, can you explain what you mean by “disproportionate”? If you’re referring to the International Committee of Red Cross rule of Proportionality in Attack, the IDF response is compliant. That rule states that civilian casualties and damage to civilian infrastructure must not be excessive in relation to the military advantage achieved by the operation in question. So, let’s look at what we know. First of all, that 35,000 deaths figure is NOT just civilians; that’s all deaths. That number (to the extent that it’s accurate at all as it comes from Hamas) includes enemy combatants and civilians killed by misfiring Hamas rockets and other Hamas operations. The estimates from the Israeli government are that roughly one third of the casualties are Hamas combatants, and this number represents more than half of the total Hamas military force when the war started. This is a very substantial military advantage, and any military commander would agree that the civilian loses, as brutal as they are, are justified under the ICRC rule. The 2:1 civilian to combatant casualty ratio is less than any other modern conflict. When you take into account the Hamas strategy of using civilians as human shields, and the IDF strategy of warning civilians when/where the next attack will be, it’s hard to imagine what more could have been done to reduce the number of civilian deaths. Other than Israel just rolling over and waiting for the next Hamas rape/murder/beheading spree, of course.
Please ask Hamas your question. They are using their own people as human shields. If Hamas survives they have vowed to kill all Jews on earth. So what should Israel do? Do you believe that the stated goal of Hamas is completely disproportionate?
There is freedom of speech and freedom of assembly and the right to peaceful protests, but then there’s vandalism and trespassing and occupying private spaces and blockading and barring others from getting through or threatening them with harm if they don’t agree with you. The protestors should have left the building when told so. No different than if someone entered your home and refused to leave. I’m all for vigorous, opinionated debate and varied viewpoints, even loud ones. Am all for uncomfortable conversations and difficult questions. That does not mean that harassment or hate speech or threats of violence or use of false equivalences to excuse lawbreaking are acceptable. The message of dissent gets hijacked by agendas of hate and intimidation and exclusion, and that is to the detriment of any actual message for coexistence and peace. I wish the police didn’t have to be called but I understand why at this point they had to.
It was disappointing to hear the President of Fordham mischaracterize the make-up of the student protesters as predominantly outsiders. Fordham has along history of standing up to help the suffering and killing of the people of Palestine and other victims of war and human rights violations. The campus newspaper writes: “Fordham Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) began a Gaza solidarity encampment in the lobby of the Leon Lowenstein Center in the early hours of May 1. The demonstration joins similar encampments launched by students on campuses nationwide to demand an immediate end to Israel’s actions in Gaza which they say constitute a genocide of Palestinians…SJP organizers announced the encampment in an Instagram post which was cross-shared by Fordham SJP, John Jay SJP and the Fordham Palestinian Solidarity Network, a university-sanctioned club that was formed in response to the administration’s refusal to recognize SJP due to its affiliation with the national SJP network.
The students at Fordham joined thousands of students across the country who are all part of an anti-war movement calling for peace and an end to this brutal killing.
It was disappointing to read you mischaracterizing what Fordham’s president said. She was very clear. She was not suggesting the people occupying the building were outsiders. She was talking about the mob that gathered OUTSIDE the building, many of whom were apparently drawn to the area by social media.
Having received the full letter from Tetlow as a member of the Fordham community, she did in fact claim that the folks in the indoor encampment could not be verified as Fordham students and that they could only guess that some of them *might* be students. Not saying whether I thought the encampment was a good move (I think divestment is a pretty complicated situation to unravel), but I will say that many of us alum are discussing the at best lazy and, worse, potentially deliberate misleading nature of Tetlow’s vague wording. If the student reporters on the Observer were able to verify the identities of all 15, you think the administration could have taken the time to do the same
Katina –
Everyone agrees that the death of innocent people is a tragedy and as a society we should advocate to do everything possible to prevent that. But thats the problem. This is not, as you claim, “an anti-war movement calling for peace”. That was 1968 and Vietnam – where the slogans were “Make Love Not War”. “Peace and Love”. “Flower Power”. I have witnessed dozens of these marches and protests and I have not sees a single sign calling for peace. Not One. In fact, just the opposite. There is a call for Israel to “cease fire”, but for Hama to continue to fight for “Intafada Revolution”, and to “Fight By Any Means Necessary”. and literally NOT to reach an agreement because, they say, “No Peace On Stolen Land” The motivation for these protests has NOTHING to do with saving Palestinian lives, to end the West Bank occupation and Gaza Blockade. This is all about 1948 and Israel’s right to exist.
If these protestors truly cared about Gazans and other Palestinians being “free” and having full rights as we enjoy, they would, first and foremost protest to remove Hamas, and allow for a government that will sit at the table like Sadat did nearly 50 years ago and negotiate a real peace agreement. They would recognize that their calls for divestment are ridiculous, not just because they wont happen (thousands of companies have connections to Israel and are represented in pretty much every investment fund in existence), but because the Israel economy is not only important to the world at large (their medical, pharmaceutical, environmental and technological research and breakthroughs are needed by society), but important to the Palestinians by supporting a huge percentage of those very Palestinians (as well as a million Israeli Arabs). Whereas prior to Oct 7th you had tens of thousands of Palestinians crossing the border into Israel every day for work, that is over and done with. Hamas , who cares more about Israel’s destruction and an Islamic state than the rights and freedoms of Palestinian people – have done more damage for the Gazan people than you can ever understand.
So if these clueless protestors — and I mean clueless as few of them actually know and studied the history of the conflict — really wanted to cause change, they would spend their energies lobbying the world to support a regime change in both Gaza and Israel to allow for peace and to allow Palestinians to have real freedom and rights that currently being enjoyed by their Arab Israeli cousins (including freedom of speech, press, religion, LGBTQ, etc etc),
How many of those students are calling for the return of the hostages? How many condemn Hamas?
Finally, a university president who has read her job description.
The current prime minister of Israel will be indicted for criminal actions, once he leaves office. (There are criminality charges on hold until then.) Keeping up his war footing, insuring the hostage situation is not resolved, and for some reason, reenacting the holocaust upon Palestinians, are his doing with a hard-right clique.
All else is sand in our eyes.
The Holocaust was a premeditated, systematic killing of people using gas chambers and concentration camps. Comparing the Holocaust to what is happening in Gaza minimizes the Holocaust and adds to the dehumanization the victims incurred. I don’t like Bibi any more than you do, but your equating the situation in Gaza to the Holocaust is shameful. Shame on you for making that statement.
You do know that if Israel truly wanted to eliminate the Palestinian people, they could have done that on October 8, right?
Genocides don’t usually include humanitarian aid. Nice try though.
Do not ever bring up the Holocaust in the same sentence with the Palestinians. That is false moral equivalency.
And what, pray tell, should be the fate of Hamas, which vows to kill every Jew on the planet?
Not about free speech or oppression. This is about violent, untamed, threatening aggression and hate. That is NEVER ok and actually denies others their rights.
How often have student protesters in this country been on the wrong side of history? If it wasn’t for them might still be mired in Southeast Asia.
The divestment from South Africa student protests were also highly effective.
I went for a run yesterday and I stopped by Fordham to see the protests.
Many of these protesters were smoking pot in front of the police and laughing. They did not appear to be motivated by any genuine empathy for the Palestinians or have any deep understanding of the conflict. These protests were a big party and a joke to them.
The whole scene was sickening.
This reminds me of the Columbia protesters who broke into the building and then DEMANDED that the university provide them with food since they “pay for a meal plan.” That should tell you everything you need to know about these entitled self centered performers. It’s so obvious that if they really wanted to help Palestinians they could have done a million other things. Even Arabs and Palestinians around the world are begging them to stop. Their slogan regarding Israel : “we want all of it” is more than many of the Palestinians demand! They are harming the cause and bolstering the Palestinian enemies of Hamas and Iran.
This situation has gotten out of hand in a generational straddling kind of way. Hate begets hate and its manifestation can snowball for years, making it difficult for the new members of the public square to identify the root causes and discuss and react in a meaningful and context-appropriate way.
Most of those protesting in tents think this situation started on October 7th and are looking at it from that myopic point of view. This situation began way before their parents were born. Solutions have been proposed, some of them more realistic than others. And this is something crucial if those protesting are to understand the reasons for which things are happening the way they are happening today.
At this point and because of the length of time that this conflict has been happening, you need a formal education if you are to understand the reasons behind it. Looking at your tick tock feed alone will not tell you the true reasons behind it. Everyone has a right to complain and protest, but most people doing it in college campuses today are only reacting to the events of October 7th and onward.
We’ve moved to the stage of any debate where the extremists take over. The “protesters” have moved beyond peaceful protest into the realm of criminal behavior. And the loudest voices on the pro-Israel side equate even legitimate criticism of Israeli actions with “antisemitism” in a shamefully predictable , knee-jerk response. Any semblance of reasonable discussion is sadly missing.
These students are doing exactly what college students are supposed to do…challenge the status quo.
I walked by there yesterday and they were having a peaceful rally while police in combat gear stood by, ready.
I, for one, am grateful that the students have brought attention to the disproportionate response (yes, it truly is) by Bibi and his corrupt, extreme-right govt.
Adults can’t say things because we will be targeted as “anti-semitic” which is ridiculous. We should have no fealty to any govt except our own and we definitely shouldn’t be giving a rich country, like Israel, any more unconditional money or military equipment.
Bring the hostages home. Palestine should be free from Hamas AND from US-funded IDF bombs.
And who exactly will “bring the hostages home”, or “free Palestine from HAMAS” if not the US-funded weapons? You?
The real world and real fight against evil doesn’t work on cute little pollyanna slogans.
Peter, I worked and lived in conflict zones, Including the middle east, so I assure you that I have seen more and done more than most people. Stop insulting your fellow neighbors.
My husband and I were threatened at yesterday’s protest as we walked past Fordham . An agitator stalked us following us to Broadway and ominously saying “Be careful”. This “hero” was threatening a 70 year old woman and an 80 year old man. I was wearing a Hamsa ( a traditionally Judaic symbol) and was privately expressing my dismay to my husband about the assembly when this masked man starting menacing us. Freedom to be deluded is I suppose a fundamental American right. I believe there are outside forces influencing the students who are rallying across the country. When I marched to protest Vietnam I never threatened anyone who supported the war. What have we come to?
My teenaged nephew and all of his friends are striking these schools off their lists. They have zero interest in dealing with this sort of drama. I’m a proud aunt
Universities have nothing to do with the Israeli war. These students energy is severely misplaced. They should be marching in Washington.
University administrators are trained in pedagogy or fundraising, not riot control. We should be questioning the prime movers of these disruptions and stop blaming administrations.