By Gus Saltonstall
The short answer is yes. The long answer is a bit more complicated.
Few topics have generated more reader questions than outdoor dining sheds.
Over the last year, the New York City Department of Transportation (DOT) has been working on new guidelines for a permanent outdoor dining program, which includes regulations that no longer allow outdoor dining structures to be fully enclosed or to take up more than a certain amount of the street.
As this new guideline process has played out, there has been general uncertainty over how long the old sheds from the temporary outdoor dining program are allowed to stay up outside of restaurants.
In October 2023, it was incorrectly reported by some New York City publications that the temporary outdoor dining sheds would have to come down by October 31. At the time, a spokesperson from the DOT, which is the agency in charge of the program, said that the existing setups would be able to “stay up until at least the end of the year.”
The end of the year of has come and gone and many of these outdoor sheds are still standing, including on the Upper West Side, so when is the actual date they will have to come down?
The Rag spoke with the DOT once again to clear the matter up.
Starting with the timeline, the DOT unveiled the proposed rules for the new permanent outdoor dining program in October of 2023. The publishing of the proposed rules triggered a 30-day public comment period that put the permanent program on track to go live in the spring of 2024.
That happened on Sunday, as the DOT’s permanent outdoor “Dining Out NYC Program” was adopted by the city on March 3. You can read the full adopted rules, which closely align with what was presented in the proposal, HERE.
Now, what about the relevant dates for shed removals?
The dates depend on whether these restaurants reapply for the permanent program, which would cost $1,050 for a four-year license on a roadbed structure, and if the restaurants get approved.
If restaurants participating in the temporary program do not reapply for the permanent outdoor dining program, they will have to take their temporary setups down by August 3.
If the restaurants do apply and get approved, they have 30 days from the date of approval to remove their existing, temporary structure, or reconfigure it to fit the new guidelines.
Restaurants can begin applying for their new outdoor dining permits beginning today on March 5.
If eateries still have an application pending on November 1, their existing structures also need to be removed by November 1.
November 29 is the end of the roadway dining season under the permanent program, and all roadway setups will need to be removed until the next season in the spring.
You can read more about the permanent outdoor dining program — HERE.
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What madness that was—as if an enclosed space outside could save you from infection—it’s just creating a room and moving it onto the sidewalk—only way it remotely made sense was if it was open to the outside air which I guess some were weather permitting—just another covid magical thinking exercise
Enough of this silliness take all the shacks down and return the much needed parking
Not magical thinking my friend. Most of those sheds DO have much better air circulation than an indoor space — open to the air, with heat lamps, and greater distancing between tables — and studies certainly did show those to be effective in fighting Covid. The facts were on their side.
But now they’ve become more than that — they’ve become a wonderful addition to our wonderful city. It’s either the diners or the parkers. In the battle for curb space, the car lobby and the food-delivery lobby won out. It’s just a question of who you support. If you take away the sheds you’re giving the curb back to those who want free parking, making it easier to keep cars on our traffic-clogged streets — not something that, I think, enhances our city as much as those lovely new dining experiences that, sadly, are going to go away.
agree! And as i mentioned. There are plenty of tourists who we make money from and They are sitting outside ..
“Open to the air”? Enclosed by 4 walls, a roof and somwtimes even closing doors? 🤣🤣🤣 Obviously this does not describe all outdoor eatery options, but many. How these ever qualified as “safer” than indoors is beyond me. While they did offer some financial cushion to restaurants when their smaller indoor spaces could not be filled at all or to normal capacity to sustain their business, that time is over.
Which particular rotting plywood box, next to 3 lanes of smoking traffic, are you having these “lovely new dining experiences” in?
They’re not a wonderful addition, they’re rat infested sheds that get vandalized and are filthy to eat in. But they’re a wonderful addition because they help rid the city of “unwanted” people whom you really wouldn’t want accessing the UWS if not by car, then by transit. There’s also no car lobby pushing back against Open Plans and Transportation Alternatives, it is grassroots efforts led by residents, the AAA isn’t donating to lawsuits against outdoor dining.
I don’t know you Phil so ‘my friend’ sounds a bit condescending—it’s been admitted there was never data to support the 6ft distance—they made it up—air circulation and ventilation yes that could help—and although the shed pictured here looks nice most of the ones I’ve seen are shoddy if not filthy
My apologies; “my firend” was intended sincerely and not meant to be condescening. I’m sorry it sounded like that to you.
Along with the license, they also have to pay a monthly fee pegged to some local rent formula, correct?
This is the poison pill hiding in the regulation:
“November 29 is the end of the roadway dining season under the permanent program, and all roadway setups will need to be removed until the next season in the spring.”
Sounds reasonable, right? Nobody’s gonna wanna eat outside in December, right? But what that means is ALL sheds have to come down at the end of November. Are restaurants gonna pay to take them down and rebuild them each year? That cost-prohibitive solution means that most likely,the sheds that come down will never go back up. We’re gonna lose a lot of those sheds forever.
In the fight for valuable curb space, the free-parking-on-the-street lobby and the delivery-service-lobby has won out over the I-love-eating-outside lobby. We tried, and we failed.
A shame.
What about we actually need people who want to come in to our city and spend money lobby? So we don’t want people driving in to spend money in our neighborhoods that have been struggling to survive? Everytime you take a parking spot away for a schack you are making it less desirable to. Remember not all tourists come in on planes. Not all areas in the tri-state are easily accessible by bus and rail. Now we expect them to pay tolls, $15 congestion, $60 parking to then pay for dinner and support business in our neighborhoods?? They simply wont come. I wouldn’t. The congestion has nothing to do with the average commuter. The city never controlled Uber. Look atvthat lobby! Take your time to look at the license plates …80% start with a “T” just circling like sharks waiting for a customer. Then you add terrible street planning. Bike lanes should not be off the sidewalk. It should be sidewalk,parking, bike lane, driving lane like every normal functioning city and town. With our structure emergency services can no longer drive around traffic on a side street. They have to sit there. Response times are abysmal now. Then add a shack in the road… c’mon! Common sense stuff. They were suppose to be a temporary lifeline during unprecedented times. Time to go!
Many cities have moved bike lanes to be between the sidewalk and parked cars in order to provide a buffer for bikes against moving vehicles, so that is becoming the norm in most cities I’ve been in in recent years.
It’s probably cheaper and easier for them to risk the unlikely fine
You seem to dislike cars and traffic and yet enjoy dining right next to heavy traffic with only a sheet of plywood to protect you from a runaway vehicle—go figure
The delivery service lobby funds a lot of the anti-car groups that support outdoor dining.
Phil,
Repeating….
Phil,
I don’t drive.
I want the sheds/street dining removed.
BTW please note that if the concern is about cars/parking that quite a few restaurant owners/managers drive in and park….
Too bad, that Felice shed pictured is really nice. Hope most of these sheds will get recertified under the new program, replacing them with a single parked SUV would be a significant downgrade.
A single parked SUV used by someone who takes a trip that would be cumbersome not using a car to the point that they wouldn’t access the UWS at all or wouldn’t access some place outside the UWS at all is fine. If that person chooses to drive, it’s less money the MTA and other jurisdictions have to spend subsidizing transit that doesn’t get as much ridership, that leaves more money for MTA to spend within Manhattan.
LIRR, NJ Transit, MetroNorth, and Amtrak are all extremely convenient and easy to use transit systems. Not to mention the buses, taxis, and many other transportation options. I’ve lived in other metro areas, NY is the easiest to get around in without a car. The UWS in particular is ridiculously easy to travel to.
You really think people can afford to take Amtrak, yes Amtrak, from Dutchess County every day or CT every day? The UWS isn’t Midtown. Let’s also face that there’s Manhattanites that don’t even want the Port Authority Bus Terminal, which has all NJ Transit buses that serve NYC, to be in Manhattan at all. Even if NYC is the easiest to get around in without a car, doesn’t mean we have to FORCE people to get around without a car, no one is forcing Manhattanites to use Ubers yet you still use them on the regular to avoid subways.
I am so ready for these eyesores to be gone. They sort of made sense during the pandemic’s worst years, keyword being “sort of.” But now? Why should a private business be allowed to take up SO much public property?
I see the enormous gray shack taking up much of 69th St. I’m guessing it’s Noidue Carne. Why is it still there? It creates a tiny bottleneck for cars and ambulances to pass by on a busy street for cars coming from the park. It should’ve been gone years ago.
Between the sheds, motorbikes parked on sidewalks, and groups of bikes tied to every post, there are sidewalks you can barely walk down at this point
Add the unlicensed vendors and homeless individuals on sidewalks to that list.
Bikes are streaming on the sidewalks now at fast speeds. we should make more of a fuss on this very dangerous .. problem!
Tired of crossing bike lanes with speeding delivery guys going both ways on Columbus and Amsterdam, plus running stop lights, in order to dine in the sheds.
I would really like if the sheds were taken down and the sidewalk was expanded.
I would hate to think that a wonderful dining shed like the one at Old John’s Restaurant was going to be thrown out because it is enclosed. It is like a cute little house. Perhaps some of the better ones could be recycled in some creative or useful way.
Old Johns is a perfect example.of one that should come.down. As you noted, it’s like e little house. It isn’t outdoor dining. They have air conditioners.It is just extra space for restaurants.
I did my own survey the past month and I did talk to many owners of restaurants and they seldom use them anymore, but during the summer they’re popular. I don’t see any people eating in them other than the rats at night when I walk my dog running in and out and under them. A few of the restaurants have gotten rid of them I have noticed and the homeless use them for shelter during the winter.
A few of them are cool, but most of them are clutter and should be taken down. I know I would never eat in them from what I see at night.👎👎
Yes, take them down return them to the parking spaces.
They are an eyesore. They may look good in other international cities, but not New York.
Just to clarify. The vast majority of these are on the avenues, where it would otherwise be metered parking which would earn far more to the city over 4 years than the $1,050 permit fee for 4 years.
So not a giveaway for those searching for free parking, but a giveaway to restaurateurs.
I am not opining whether this is good or bad.
Also, even on the free parking side streets, those cars generate revenue for the city in parking ticket fees, and increased economic activity.
Also to clarify, again not saying whether this is good or bad. But you can’t say that public transportation in/out of the suburbs is as or more convenient than driving. (Just talking about convenience now.) Even fighting traffic, it takes about 1/2 as long to get in by driving as it does to train bus. Many suburbs, such as Rockland, where the trains and busses are lame, it takes about 3 times as long. Certainly not convenient.
I was thinking about it this Sunday ! So many restaurants have ugly shades still up ! And when they were not there people were eating very happily inside the restaurant and ready to wait.
Get rid of all the sheds and just have outdoor tables and seating. We need the sidewalks to walk and the street to park.
I live near Le Monde on 112 and Broadway. They have a huge indoor space AND a sidewalk space AND a large shed. Do they really need all that 4 years after Covid? It’s enough.
COVID-19 is over and let’s put it behind us. The sheds reminds me of all the bad that we experienced during the pandemic, tear them down, get rid of them, they look so crappy and dirty too!
I don’t have a car so I have no vested interest in parking.
I have dined in sheds, and some were/are attractive or at least pleasant.
I do think all sheds should close, as they have run their course. They are no longer needed to minimize disease transmission, and in many cases were not useful for that anyway, given bad set-up. They provide unnecessary seating capacity, as most restaurants now are not full inside or outside, and if they are, it will benefit the restaurant sector more if more when people decide to go to another restaurant when their first choice is full. I prefer a return to regular outdoor cafe tables, which are still charming, have clear rules and clear enforcement, and are less rat prone. The dining sheds also unfairly benefit a single sector (restaurants) at the expense of other retail sectors (shops) or the greater public good (like containerized waste or mobile medical or library services or anything more inclusive than restaurants). Moreover the city has proven incapable of monitoring or managing the sheds, and the new rules and design do not solve that problem, it just makes a different set of rules that similarly will not be enforced. Overall the sheds need to go.
These outdoor sheds are being abandoned, and becoming an eye nuisance. Eye pollution. Janie’s on West 80 th is such an example. More needs to be done to pressure these owners to remove them so street sweepers can resume operations.